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Lost “In Water”

By John Cabrera on Feb 13 2009

Sawyer: I thought you were on that boat! I thought you were dead!
Jin: No no….. In water

And with those few simple words, the mystery of Jin’s miraculous survival had been answered… he was blasted into the water and floated to safety. I don’t know about you all, but now I feel a little silly for getting choked up when he died last season…. or the stuffed panda episode… that shit was sad, man!

*sigh*

Okay, we wanted him back, he’s back.

Couple things that came to mind while watching this week’s episode:

Smoke Monster

It’ll pound an 815 pilot, an Eko, and now Nadine.
It’ll take SOME people on down to funky town and apparently turn them into lying murderers. So it certainly discriminates; must consider some people “special”… Kind of like the Others did in Seasons 1 and 2 with their kidnapping of 815 Survivors?
But Smokerton left Locke alone. He stared it down… it knew who was boss.

I think what we witnessed in this episode (the well, the wheel) is really the beginning of Locke’s journey to becoming that boss. Meaning, had the smoke monster appeared just before Locke hopped into that well, I don’t think he would have had the same command over it. My guess is, it wouldn’t have “known” him the way it did in Season 1. Time seems to have taken Locke far into the past, likely before he developed his special communion with the Island.

Also, looking at the outside of the temple, I started thinking about my Dharma logo theory again. Rather than an artistic representation of Atlantis (as described by Plato), what if it’s simply an overhead view of a single piece of ancient architecture? If so, then it’s most likely the Temple itself.

Anyone decode those hieroglyphs on the temple walls yet?

Top 10 Awesome Things That Happened on LOST Last Night (takepart.com)
Has The Lost City Of Atlantis Been Found? (news.sky.com)
Lost Season 5 Episode 5 “This Place is Death” Highlights (connectwithyourteens.blogspot.com)
Atlantis found, again, this time by google (essexroundup.wordpress.com)
Atlantis found? (americablog.com)

30 Responses to “Lost “In Water””

Johnny Hugel on 13 Feb 2009 at 11:27 am #

Good thoughts. What I wanna know is when Locke “fixed” the wheel, did that stop the skipping through time? If so, are they going to be in the proper time period?

I’m looking forward to seeing more of the temple, and perhaps the people who have been hiding out there (if in the present).
John Cabrera on 13 Feb 2009 at 12:04 pm #

My guess is that it did stop the jumps. And it probably stopped them while the survivors are in the time of the Dharma Initiative. That’s based on the Cold Open of the first episode of the season… with Faraday entering the mine. Charlotte’s prediction that Faraday will tell her not to return to the Island also supports that.
SamanthaJackson on 13 Feb 2009 at 12:24 pm #

I forgot the cold open of the first episode!
See…..as soon as Lost will end in 2010, I so need to see it back from the beginning!

I usually agree with most of your theories, but I don’t think that Locke doesn’t have the connection with the island “when” he is now.
Manos Torgo on 13 Feb 2009 at 12:26 pm #

You are right about Locke and Smokey. Mr. Eko once faced down the smoke monster and it left him alone, though it showed him faces of people in his old village. Then of course the next time they met, it was not quite as docile.

I certainly hope they do jump in time a bit more just to uncover more of the island’s past. Like the pirate ship. Yes I had mining equipment and slaves, but I like thinking of it as a priate ship.

Ben did not seem to know that mother Goose from “Brotherhood” is Faradays mother. He looked like he was gut punched at that bit of news.
DJSmackMackey on 13 Feb 2009 at 12:31 pm #

I am eager to see where Locke ends up. It’ll be too convenient if he ends up being transported straight to L.A.
I think Ben is trying to be “The One”, but he’s not. Locke is. The mention of “sacrifice” by Christian made me think of Cain and Abel. I think we’re going to find that Locke and Ben are somehow related. I’m thinking the Eden theory isn’t far off now.
I just started Paradise Lost this morning on the train into work. I’m gonna be looking for parallels to Lost while I read it.
Pauline on 13 Feb 2009 at 12:56 pm #

Hasn’t John Locke always had a special communion with the island?
John Cabrera on 13 Feb 2009 at 1:20 pm #

Pauline… has he always? All we know for sure is that he has a special communion with it in 2004?
John Cabrera on 13 Feb 2009 at 1:21 pm #

Samantha, not the first episode of the series… the first episode of this season. When we see Faraday in the mine with members of the Dharma Initiative.
Johnny Hugel on 13 Feb 2009 at 1:36 pm #

Good one. You’ve got me stoked on the possibilities: Miles + Dr. Chang, Ben + Annie?, anything involving Richard, Charlotte and her parents, Widmore, etc…
John Cabrera on 13 Feb 2009 at 1:44 pm #

Johnny, well I’m fairly confident Dr. Chang and Miles are related. Have you noticed how they’re both similarly irritable? Like father like son?
SamanthaJackson on 13 Feb 2009 at 1:45 pm #

yes yes, I know it’s the cold open of season 5.
I just meant that with all the little clues and gaps and things we got in the years the show has been running, when it’s all over and we’ll have all figured out, I will need to watch it back again from the pilot to the finale, to give new and right meaning to everything.

*For instance I’m still waiting to know who were the 2 skeletons that Kate and Jack found out in a cave in season 1,since JJ Abraams told that they were important, and they had a great story behind them *
Pauline on 13 Feb 2009 at 2:10 pm #

My reasoning behind my Locke/island communion idea is that why else would Richard Alpert been visiting him when he was sick in the hospital as a baby if he didn’t already have a connection to the island? Then when Alpert shows up when Locke is 5, Alpert sees that Locke has drawn a picture of a stick figure being attacked by what appears to be a smoke monster. This to me is indicative of a communion with the island that reaches much further back than 2004.
Perhaps it would depend on how far back he had time jumped? But even then I’m not sure.
John Cabrera on 13 Feb 2009 at 2:38 pm #

P, but you’re forgetting Locke tells Richard in the 1954 Island flash that he’s their leader. And at that point Richard has no friggin idea who Locke is. Locke also tells him that he’ll be born soon… as a way to prove he really is from the future and special. I think the suggestion is that Richard goes to see him in the hospital and again as a small boy, in order to see if the Locke who came to him in 1954 (and presumably disappeared before his eyes) really is the same person.

I’m not suggesting he only had the special Island connection in 2004… but that he didn’t have it prior to his birth in 56 (makes sense, right? He wasn’t born yet). So what I’m saying is that communion may have been formed in a very logical fashion by adult Locke traveling back in time to years before his birth. Rather than the “choir of angels”, “you are the chosen one” stuff we’ve all assumed it to be.
Pauline on 13 Feb 2009 at 3:05 pm #

Okay… got it. I was trying to remember exactly what Lock told Alpert in ’54. Doh! I totally forgot about that. But it still doesn’t explain why Locke had drawn a picture of a smoke monster attacking someone. That was probably enough to get Alpert to come back and try to recruit Locke for a special summer camp when he was in school.

But something about this time traveling stuff just isn’t sitting right. If Locke’s comment to Alpert in ’54 precipitated the visit he made to young Locke… then why doesn’t Rousseau remember Jin when she meets the survivors of Oceanic 815?

Another example inconsistencies of the time jumping is that Desmond remembers what Faraday tells him in the hatch when Faraday is back in time… so… what was the deal with Rousseau not recognizing Jin?

Man… this show… questions only lead to more questions.

Regardless… Nestor Carbonell is hot! Anyone with me on this one?
John Cabrera on 13 Feb 2009 at 3:17 pm #

I’m sure a lot of people are asking that question about Rousseau. I think the answer is as boring as the answer to how Jin survived the explosion.

Writer 1: Wait so how do we explain Rousseau not recognizing Jin in 2004?
Writer 2: Ah, she’s bat-shit crazy at that point.
Pauline on 13 Feb 2009 at 3:36 pm #

That was my next post John… poor bat-shit crazy Rousseau.

I guess it all stands as this for me:

kids draw pictures that really MEAN things. (so I refuse to abandon this here idear)
the writers are going to paint themselves into all sorts of corners if they don’t stop this time jumping crap pronto.
I am just going to distract myself with the man candy until this season becomes more linear.

Thanks for playing along j!
John Sylvain on 13 Feb 2009 at 3:39 pm #

Nestor is hot. He’s my favorite thing about everything he’s in, including Lost.

BTW Island is an Atlantean Time Machine.

Don’t ask…I just know.
John Cabrera on 13 Feb 2009 at 4:18 pm #

Oh, I don’t deny that it means something… I’m just not convinced it means he’s some sort of metaphysical “chosen one”.

And BigSmack, to your point about where Locke might be headed after the wheel turn/axle alignment: I’m totally with you. I don’t think it’s as simple as him being transported back to modern day LA. In fact, I think his journey back to LA is going to be a series-long one. One thing’s for sure, fans certainly don’t have to worry about losing Terry O’Quinn this season.
SamanthaJackson on 14 Feb 2009 at 4:18 am #

About Rousseau not recognizing Jin:
She didn’t in 2004 because the enocunter still had to take place. Jin travelled back in time after Rousseau’s death.
While Desmond remembered Daniel because he already visited him in the past, distorting the events.

I’m sure I didn’t explain it in the right way (mostly because english is not my language,sorry folks), but if you rewatch Back to the future and listen to Doc Brown explanations of the time/space continuum, I’m sure it will be more clear.
LoL (I’m not even entirely kidding )
John Cabrera on 14 Feb 2009 at 4:34 pm #

Samantha, But the way time traveling is being explained in Lost is totally opposite from Back to the Future. In BttF the idea is that you can travel back in time and actually change the future by interfering with the natural way things happened the first time.

In Lost, as Faraday explains to Sawyer, their time traveling isn’t effecting the past so much as it’s verifying that it has always been a PART of the past… they just didn’t know it. Faraday tells Sawyer it’s pointless for him to try to get Desmond to come out of the hatch, because he knows that never happened… Desmond never knew Sawyer prior to meeting in Season 2-3… so nothing they try to do will change that. “What happened, happened.”

Same would apply to Jin and Rousseau. If Jin was rescued by Rousseau’s after he traveled in time, then that’s something that didn’t just happen once… it’s something that has always happened. Rousseau will grow into the woman we met Season 1, she’ll meet the Survivors and nothing will be different. History will go through the same course of events that it always has… including Jin getting blasted off that exploding freighter once again, and traveling in time to meet her as a young girl… “What happened, happened”… and will always happen. Nothing they can do will change anything.

So the question everyone has is why, if Rousseau has always found a floating Jin in the water… if she will always grow into the woman we met in Season 1 and see Jin face to face…. why doesn’t she recognize him. And I think the best answer is that she’s lost her mind by the time we meet her in Season 1. Everything is confusing perhaps even hallucinatory. Maybe she did see Jin and think, “Hmmm…. that guy looks familiar,” but just never said anything. She did always seem to know more than she wanted to say. And she didn’t seem to care about much except finding Alex again.
Erik on 14 Feb 2009 at 5:40 pm #

Here’s an alternate theory about why Rousseou doesn’t recognize Jin — I didn’t come up with this theory, I read it on one of the fansites, but I’m throwing it out to you because it makes a certain weird sense to me, and I like it better than the “she’s crazy” explanation, which feels like lazy writing — but:

Maybe she doesn’t recognize Jin because the memory itself doesn’t exist yet. Yes, Jin always traveled through time and had his experience with Rousseou, but she won’t actually REMEMBER it until present-day-Jin does it. (Of course, we won’t see her “remembering” it because she’s dead now, but let’s pretend she wasn’t killed last season, then “old” Rousseau would suddenly have that memory and recognize Jin AFTER the “present” time of Season 5 episode 5.)

Further evidence to support this theory: if we assume that these time jumps always happened, then Faraday always knocked on the hatch door and had that conversation with Desmond, but Desmond didn’t recognize him on the island because he didn’t have that memory until after Faraday also had that memory…it came to him in a dream after it happened for Faraday in “present” time.

Also: Charlotte should have presumably recognized Daniel, but she doesn’t recognize him until her dying moments, when her consciousness is shifting through various different times and memories.

Am I making any sense???
Erik on 14 Feb 2009 at 5:50 pm #

Oh, and I was wondering if you were going to comment on when Charlotte said “I know more about ancient Carthage than Hannibal himself.”

Personally I don’t know ANYTHING about ancient Carthage, so I don’t have anything to say about her quote, but I was wondering if it fit into any of your theories about the ancient stuff on the island?
John Cabrera on 14 Feb 2009 at 5:52 pm #

Totally. That’s interesting as hell. VERY complicated though. LOL.

Because what really is “present day” on this show? Is it determined by the characters or the audience. Desmond remembers Faraday suddenly, yes… but it’s after WE saw Faraday knock on the door and meet Desmond. If you just play it out without an audience, there isn’t actually a moment that changed anything… it’s just, one day in the future Desmond remembered something. And in fact, for Desmond it’s been years since the dudes on the Island started time traveling.
John Cabrera on 14 Feb 2009 at 5:56 pm #

Yes, I was planning to talk about that. But I didn’t want to just say, “Carthage is Ancient” without actually reading up on Carthage and Hannibal. If I hadn’t researched Atlantis a bit before I laid out those thoughts, I wouldn’t have found the cool comparison pics of Atlantis and the Dharma logo.
Erik on 14 Feb 2009 at 6:12 pm #

Yeah, the fact that “for Desmond it’s been years since the dudes on the Island started time traveling” is a tricky one…and the only way I can explain that while staying true to the theory I presented, but (and maybe this is a bit of a cheat, but still) time jumps aside, time moves at a different rate on the island as it does in the rest of the world. Evidence #1: Faraday’s experiment where he had someone blast something off the boat to the island and there was a 44 minute (or thereabouts) inconsistency between when it should have landed and when it actually landed. And Evidence #2: the boat’s Doctor washed up ashore dead before the Doctor actually got killed on the boat (when they sent the morse code message to the boat, the response was “the doctor’s fine, he’s right here” or something like that). So maybe, just maybe, the moment when Faraday leaped into the past and had his moment with past-Desmond happened at the same time that present-Desmond woke up and had his memory, DESPITE the fact that Desmond’s “present” is “three years later” than the island “present” we’re seeing.

I know, I know, it’s complicated and confusing, but it makes a weird logical sense to me.

And about the Carthage thing, I didn’t mean to rush you! I just had to ask because as soon as Charlotte said that, one of the first things I thought was, “I wonder if that fits into John’s theories?”
dee on 16 Feb 2009 at 3:35 am #

Lostpedia has a section on Hieroglyphs, I’m assuming

Man with Stick = Eko
Wounded Man = Locke
Bound Man =??? maybe Locke’s Dad (as Ben had him tied up in the room).
Vanessa N. on 16 Feb 2009 at 6:27 pm #

I’ve always been a sucker for time-travel stuff, so I’m loving Lost and the comments discussion, but here’s what I’d like to know people’s thoughts on from the last episode: Jack’s Dad/Jacob connection. Do people actually think that Jack’s dad Christian is Jacob? Or did Jacob need a body to inhabit and Christian’s body happened to be on the island and available since it was on the plane? And, in the case that Jacob’s just using the body, why would he say “Say hello to my son” when Locke doesn’t even know that’s Jack’s dad (or at least, I don’t think he does)? I never thought that picture of Jacob from your “Lost Theories, Pt. 1″ looked like Locke, but it does look A LOT like Christian, and presumably is that actor because of what we saw in this last episode.

So, thoughts on the Christian/Jacob connection?
John Cabrera on 16 Feb 2009 at 7:19 pm #

Well, I for one would be pretty dissapointed if it turns out to be Christian. I feel like that’s been a red herring clue since the beginning of season 3, and it seems to be holding as long as it has because people REALLY want to be able to explain Christian’s presence on the Island. But I also think it’s highly unlikely that it will turn out to be so, mainly because last season Locke asked him point blank if he was Jacob. Christian said no. I have to take him on his word. (of course, I am willing to eat MY words if he does turn out to be Jacob)

As for the picture I posted. I personally think it’s obvious that the person in that chair is Terry O’Quinn (nose dimple and all)… but here’s another shot that breaks it down a little better.
Vanessa N. on 16 Feb 2009 at 8:15 pm #

Interesting picture. That does break it down much better. I also don’t want Jacob to be Christian, but I am very curious as to why Jacob seems to be using his form so much.
John Cabrera on 17 Feb 2009 at 12:11 am #

I’m not sure I know what you mean. Christain has never said that he’s Jacob… or that Jacob is using his form… or possessing him or something. The only thing Christian has said in regards to Jacob was when Locke found Christian and Claire in the cabin. Locke asked him if he was Jacob, and Christian said no but that “he could speak for Jacob”. That’s very different from “Jacob is speaking through me.” If Jacob was using Christian’s form why wouldn’t he just say, “Yeah, I’m Jacob. I’m inside this dead dude’s body.”?