Henry Gale or Ben Linus?: A List of the Good and Evil
UPDATE: I’ve updated this post since watching Episode 5.12, “Dead is Dead”. I think it reveals a lot about Ben and gives us insight into why he does what he does. All changes are marked in this color Red. Thank you @sarahsamudre for suggesting I do this!
Over the past month, I’ve noticed a lot of people throwing hate at Ben Linus. It used to seem like everyone found him the coolest, most complex character of Lost. But now I get this sense that most just consider Ben an ego driven scum bag; a dude defined by selfish acts of deception, manipulation, murder, torture…
So let’s say Ben Linus falls into the category of evil. That would suggest he has a disproportionately high number of evil acts to his name… right?
Well that got me wondering what his ratio of good to evil might be.
Ben does seem to have a motive, a need, a desire. We just don’t really know what it is yet. One could say, “all of his Good acts are really just motivated by selfishness and greed,” just as easily as, “all of his Evil acts are motivated by a need to save as many lives as possible.” The truth is, most of what we see Ben do is a total mystery and so we’re viewing it out of context. I think @manostorgo said it well:
The end justifies the means.We just keep seeing the means but not his goal.
Hopefully, by the end we will understand Ben’s goal. But until then, we’ve just gotta go with our gut. Which is why I thought it might be helpful for us to keep track of the Bad and the Good in Ben Linus.
First a list of Evil acts. Stuff Ben has done that would prompt the average NON-Lost viewer (with very little bias) to say, “Damn, who is that guy?! He’s a real douche!”
Then a similarly selected list for the good.
On Monday I sent a tweet out asking for help on this. I got a lot of amazing answers and I’ve listed many of them here. I’d planned to link everyone’s tweets to the respective answers, but there were just too many duplicates. If you see one of your answers here, you know who you are, and you know I appreciate the help.
EVIL:
- Gases the Dharma Initiative.
- Leaves his father to die in the gassing.
- Sends Goodwin into a death trap.
- Controls and psychologically imprisons Juliette.
- Orders the kidnapping of Walt. - Now it seems he wants to save children fromĀ a childhood similar to his… this may be misguided, but there’s some good in there… and it’s certainly not evil.
- Lies about his identity by pretending to be Henry Gale.
- Manipulates Michael into deceiving and killing some of the 815 survivors.
- Tortures Karl.
- Imprisons Jack, Kate, and Sawyer.
- Orders Kate’s torture at the Hydra Station.
- Slams the door on Jack and Juliette as the Hydra is filling with water.
- Manipulates Michael into a suicide mission on the Freighter.
- Imprisons Locke‘s father and urges Locke to kill him.
- Shoots Locke and leaves him for dead in the pit.
- Orders Charlie’s death.
- Orders his men at the beach to kill Sayid, Jin, and Bernard.
- Shoots Charlotte point blank.
- Goes ninja on those Tunisian guys in the desert just after he teleports from the wheel.
- Vows to kill Penny.
- Manipulates Sayid into killing for him.
- Proceeds to strangle and kill Locke. - This one isn’t evil to me anymore. I know it seemed evil at the time, and it’s certainly not Good… but I don’t think it’s anything really. Locke wanted to go back to the Island. Locke needed to go back to the Island. He could only go back dead. Ben needed info to get him there. He got that info from him, then forced a death that needed to happen anyway.
- Sends lawyers on Kate and Aaron. – If it hadn’t been for this act Kate wouldn’t be on the Island looking for Claire… and Aaron wouldn’t be with his Grandmother.
- Shoots at Desmond to get to Penny. Intention to kill both.
- Lies to Ceasar about who John Locke is… actually we could just call this one “has an ugly lying habit.”
- Shoots Ceasar point bl-iz-ank!
Damn! That’s a lot!
Okay, let’s TRY to forget that gruesome image when Locke dies, and now let’s go for a little GOOD:
- Brings Juliette to the Island to help keep the women from dying during pregnancy
- Tries his hardest to charm/court Juliette by cooking her a nice dinner.
- Has “Jacob” cure Juliette’s sister’s cancer.
- Allows her to see video of her sister.
- Punches in the numbers in the Swan Station, and instead of escaping, helps an injured Locke.
- Allows Michael and (more importantly) Walt to leave the Island.
- Tries to prevent Alex from getting pregnant on the Island (which would kill her) by separating her from Karl.
- <del>Intends to keep his promise of letting Jack leave if he does the surgery.</del> Wouldn’t matter, since the island would have say over that anyway.
- Welcomes Locke into The Others.
- Tries to talk Jack out of calling the Freighter to prevent a mass extermination.
- Sends Alex and Rousseau to The Temple for safety.
- Sics the Smoke Monster on Keamy‘s men so that Locke and the others can escape.
- Morns the loss of his daughter.
- Agrees to help Locke move the Island despite a clear desire not to.
- <del>Talks Locke out of killing himself.</del> Neither good nor bad. Locke dying had to happen for them to get back.
- Throws Jack’s drugs away.
- Tells Jack and Sun that he is trying his hardest to help them despite what it seems.
- Goes back to the Island to be judged for the death of his daughter.
- Spares Rousseau’s life.
- Saves Alex’s life as a baby.
- Asks Sun to relay what appears to be a sincire apology to Desmond.
- Raises Alex with what appears to be clear love.
So if we just look at the means, the bad does seem to be outweighing the good right now we are now totally even. Have I forgotten anything? I’m gonna continue adding to this list as the series progresses. And I’d love your help in doing that.
Cool?
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Johnny Hugel on 04 Mar 2009 at 10:06 am #
When you asked for help I didn’t really have LOST on the brain. Reading this list really helps confirm the same thing I’ve felt for a while, that we might just not know enough about Ben (or anyone behind the scenes) yet. I think “Darlton” has had an idea of what his and others roles would be after they made him a regular, but any theories right could still be shot down after his actions from a single episode (for those who would accuse them of making it up as they go along). I think he’s following a path, we just don’t know what it is, and get frustrated when he veers from what we think the path should be.
I do think that Ben has less control of events off the island than he had on, and therefore his emotions and actions have become a lot more volatile recently. A few things have come as surprises to him, which I think causes him to panic as he feels his control slipping.
Good work on compiling this; I’m interested to see how it progresses.
Manos Torgo on 04 Mar 2009 at 1:42 pm #
I’ve been quoted!! Now the bar is raised for me to say like important and witty shit? Omg the pressure!
Great review of Ben.Hmmm totally forgot about the Ballooneer Henry Gale
DJSmackMackey on 04 Mar 2009 at 2:01 pm #
You left of “Strangles Locke”
I’m beginning to think that neither Ben nor Widmore are good. I think Ben booted Widmore from the island after gassing the Dharma Initiative. And now everyone is caught in the middle of their fight.
John Cabrera on 04 Mar 2009 at 2:07 pm #
DJSmack, sure I did. Look again. It’s number 21.
K8 on 04 Mar 2009 at 5:42 pm #
I think it’s safe to say that 90% of the “good” list, if not all of them, are only manipulations to further his evil goals.
I would definitely agree that the bad definitely outweighs the good, but that’s fair since I honestly think he might be the “Big Bad” at this point.
John Cabrera on 04 Mar 2009 at 6:28 pm #
If it’s safe to say all of his Good acts are actually manipulations to further his evil goals, why can’t we say that his Evil acts are just sacrifices necessary to achieve a greater good and selfless goal? We don’t know his goals, so we can’t really know for sure either way. That’s why I said until we actually do know, we have to base our opinions on our gut instinct… which is fair, since it’s all we’ve got right now. But in a mystery as thick as this one, I don’t know if I would say either call is a “safe” one.
K8 on 04 Mar 2009 at 6:36 pm #
Sigh…
You are tricky, sir.
John Cabrera on 04 Mar 2009 at 7:05 pm #
Tricky like Benjamin Linus? lol.
K8 on 04 Mar 2009 at 7:07 pm #
lol. Maybe not that tricky.
Wendy on 04 Mar 2009 at 7:14 pm #
I think the core battle between Ben and Charles Whidmore have a huge impact. Which one is right with protecting or wanting to destroy the island. It’s gotten so bad that personal vendetta towards loved ones makes both of these guys look bad. I think I need to go back and watch my DVDS for all seasons again. More pieces to put together.
goose on 04 Mar 2009 at 7:23 pm #
when you say shot Charlotte at point blank range,do you mean shot Locke at point blank range?
Teresa S on 04 Mar 2009 at 8:10 pm #
Good/Evil, Love him or hate him, it would be very hard to find another character as unpredictable and interesting as Ben.
John Cabrera on 04 Mar 2009 at 8:15 pm #
Nope. I mean Charlotte. She was wearing a vest so he didn’t kill her… but he tried. To be fair, neither Charlotte nor Locke was particularly point blank… but the term makes it sound more evil. lol.
Pauline on 04 Mar 2009 at 11:22 pm #
To be fair, I don’t thing Ben lying about his identity by pretending to be Henry Gale would really constitute as evil in comparison to things like murdering people. I would also say that him disposing of the two guys in Tunisia who were holding him at gunpoint was more self-defense than evil.
And while Ben did manipulate Michael to set him free by promising that he and Walt could get off the island… He did not tell him to kill anyone to achieve this. Ben told Michael when he was on the freighter: “There are people on your boat who are innocent. They have no idea that the man they work for is a monster, a killer without conscience or a greater purpose. I had to show you the difference between him and me. When I’m at war, I’ll do what I need to do to win, but I will not kill innocent people.” Michael reminds him about the two women he killed for Ben, THEN Ben reminds Michael that it hadn’t been his idea to kill Libby and Ana Lucia.
I went back and watched him kill them and it was an idea that was hatched in the moment when he found Ana-Lucia angry that she had not been able to kill Ben.
Those are kind of knit-picky but since the list of evil things is so big… I didn’t think it was right to toss lying into being evil or give Ben credit for an evil plan that wasn’t his.
Erik on 04 Mar 2009 at 11:38 pm #
My instincts say we’re going to find out that #21 on the “bad” list was actually done with good intentions. Locke had to die before he could be resurrected, and Ben ensured that would happen.
John Cabrera on 05 Mar 2009 at 1:32 am #
Erik, I’m pretty sure your instincts are right. And now that the Survivors are in the time of lil’Ben… we may learn exactly why and how Ben knows them so well in the future. His greater “purpose” in life and on the island may have started here as a child… and could very well involve this group of time travelers. He always talks about how much he’s helping them, one of the good guys, saying “If you only knew what I’ve had to do!” We assume he’s talking about how much he’s done for the survivors since he met them in 2003… which seems ridiculous to us… but maybe not so ridiculous if he’s talking about a group of survivors he’s been struggling to help since he was a child at Dharma. Somethin to think about peeps.
And Pauline, I think you’re right about Michael. His actions would probably prompt a non viewer of the show to assume Michael’s the douchie one. But with Tunisia I stick… he kills in too slick, and calculated a fashion… fakes the nerd then machine guns them… most non viewers of Lost would assume he was the bad guy if they came into that scene cold. Same thing with the Henry Gale lie. There are certainly varying degrees of Evil on that list… but that’s an act more associate with a villain. Which is really what I was getting at.
SamanthaJackson on 05 Mar 2009 at 9:37 am #
I think he’s bad, so that means he will probably be good, and Jack & Co. are the bad guys. JJ Abraams just loves to twist with our minds (Alias docet)
Pauline on 05 Mar 2009 at 10:39 pm #
One could argue, especially after watching tonight’s episode where we saw Sawyer lie and say that his name was Jim LaFleur and proceded to tell a fictional tale about how his shipped crashed on the island etc. that the mere fact that Ben Linus told an elaborate lie about being Hail wasn’t what made him evil. What made him evil what was he did while he was being held.
I’m not trying to be difficult… I’m just saying that it was what Ben did while in captive to manipulate everyone… the way he played people against each other that made him evil and not the act of lying. (Locke and Eko for example) This won’t make your list shorter… it will actually make it a little longer by isolating each evil act he did while in the survivors custody as opposed to just lumping it under the fact that he lied about who he was.
John Cabrera on 06 Mar 2009 at 2:47 am #
LOL. Come on P. You know what I mean. The deceptiveness we saw from him as Henry Gale (which is certainly a part of his manipulative games) felt evil… felt bad guy.
Simple as that. You gotta keep in mind, it’s not the act, it’s how the act is perceived within the given circumstances. That lie was nothing like the LaFleur lie because we knew exactly why Sawyer doing that. If we didn’t know why Sawyer was lying it might have felt just as villainous.
If the only episode a person watched was the one where Locke knifes Naomi in the back… that person would assume Locke was a bad guy.
If the only episode a person watched was the one where we find out Ben is lying about who he is… that person would probably also assume he was a bad guy.
But with LaFleur they would just assume he was trying to keep he and his friends safe, since that was pretty much telegraphed to the audience.
Pauline on 06 Mar 2009 at 12:51 pm #
LOL! John, sometimes you just gotta tell me to put down the stick and step away from the horse.
melissa ann! on 18 Mar 2009 at 7:53 pm #
I’ve been on team Ben for a very long time now and despite everything, I love him. I believe that he is ultimately good and that we have no idea what his motivations are or what his end game is. He always has a plan of action and generally has excellent execution of those plans. I would like to address some of the items in your Evil list individually.
1. We don’t know what happened with the DI folks and Ben’s takeover… it’s obvious that the hostiles/others often kill off folks on the island that they don’t want around. I think it’s pretty clear that they were trying to get rid of the DI for a very long time, and perhaps even manipulated Ben into making that happen. I don’t think he can really be held fully accountable for that incident.
2. Who cares about his dad? His dad was a terrible person. Okay, so maybe that makes ME a little evil, but whatever. Dad sucked.
5. They kidnapped a lot of kids… not awesome depending on your perspective. We still don’t know what the hostiles/others are/were up to… I believe it’s totally possible that they are the “good” ones in all of this, and that everyone else, including the survivors of 815, are bad.
6. I would lie, too. It’s survival.
7. Ben never asked Michael to do anything, Ben was locked up. And killing Libby and Ana-Lucia was not a part of their arrangement.
12. Michael needed to do that, it was the only way he could find peace.
18. That was AWESOME and totally sexy!
19. Yes, this is terrible. Also, his mysterious “I made a promise to an old friend” comment and then him showing up all beaten and bloody scares me. I can’t hate Ben, but if he did anything to Desmond/Penny/Charlie I might have to.
21. He did it for a reason, he showed obvious emotion while doing that. I feel this was clearly a means to an end. He knew what needed to be done and that Locke wasn’t able to do it. And when he said he would miss Locke I believe that he meant it.
I could say more but I’m running out of space. I love Ben!
sarahsamudre on 10 Apr 2009 at 8:10 am #
#23 for the good list: He saves Locke’s life when he shoots Ceasar.
and 90% for sure on this one: #24, saves Ethan from being a victim of the purge. It seems like Ben took charge of Ethan even pre-purge and let him live.
Oh! and most important of all- #25 he DOESN’T shoot Penny. This guy had no problem killing dozens of others. He could have shot Penny and Charlie, and for that matter, that shot at Desmond wasn’t a fatal shot and Ben’s not a lousy target. I don’t think he wanted to kill Des, and just meant to get Penny- but spared her in the end. DEFINITELY good.
Oh fyi, the link to this post from yesterday’s is broken. I had to find it through a site search.
who’s john cabrera? » Lost… now with more hieroglyphs on 10 Apr 2009 at 8:32 am #
[...] Yeeeeeeaaaaaaaahhhh. In fact, at the suggestion of @sarahsamudre, I’ve updated my post, Henry Gale or Ben Linus?: A List of the Good and Evil. Take a look at where he stands now. Let me know if you [...]
John Cabrera on 10 Apr 2009 at 9:28 am #
Oh, I don’t think his shot at Desmond was lousy at all. That was a direct shot to the heart. If you listen, you can hear the sound of metal hitting metal. Desmond was saved by something in that bag… something Ben couldn’t have known about. Which means Ben was definitely trying to kill Desmond. But only because he was in the way. And it’s hard to say whether he would or wouldn’t have killed Penny once little Charlie was gone. That moment read more to me as conflicted and a little stunned. And then of course Desmond came in. Clearly children are his Achilles heal.
sarahsamudre on 10 Apr 2009 at 2:38 pm #
I just screengrabbed it and Ben shoots through a jug of milk, hitting Desmond’s right shoulder. So the bullet definitely hits him, but it’s so not a fatal, or intended to be fatal shot.
http://www.sarahsamudre.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/desmondshotbyben.png
http://www.sarahsamudre.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/desmondshoulderwound.png
It’s also the beginnings of a great Lost Got Milk ad. But yeah, I think Ben spared Desmond. He rarely miscalculates- with the exception of 80% of the things that are Locke related, of course.
John Cabrera on 10 Apr 2009 at 4:07 pm #
lol. Okay okay, I’ll watch it again. My memory of it was a sound that immediately registered as “Okay, Desmond just got saved by something in the bag.” The whole scene I was waiting for him to jump Ben. And when he did, I don’t remember blood from a bullet wound anywhere on his shirt. And he was beating the hell out of him… with a bulley wound? But maybe I’m just remembering it wrong.
Okay, I just looked at the screen grabs. That milk is squirting from in front of his chest. And the bullet hole looks kind of like a wrinkle in the shirt. Okay, I have to watch this again.
I also interpreted Ben’s apology message as “tell Desmond I’m sorry for trying to kill him.” With all the killing Ben has done why would an apology for trying to wound him be so important?
Also, I’m with you that he probably wouldn’t have killed Penny… but I don’t think it would have had much to do with Penny so much as the little boy. And we can’t know for sure what he would have done. But it sure is nice to see that the spectrum of his personality is more than just dark and evil.
sarahsamudre on 10 Apr 2009 at 9:00 pm #
I think you’re right. It definitely was Charlie that caused him to stop. I think the real question now is, how is this gonna push Desmond and Penny to go to the Island? Cause you KNOW that’s where they were going to end up. I was 110% prepared for Penny to die because I thought that was the surest way to get Desmond back into the common narrative.
Haha, and you should watch the episode again- if for no other reason than to further investigate whether or not Locke = Smokie.
ashley on 28 Apr 2009 at 2:14 pm #
This is still my favorite Lost post you’ve written so far. I’m with you.. I love Ben, I love the current even good/evil count!