This Lost post uses a “creepy-kid” to ill effect
Raise your hand if you were thinking that the cavern Locke showed Sawyer was going to turn out to be the control deck of a spaceship.
Raise your hand if, as the camera was panning to the reveal of the cave, you were saying to the TV, “Spaceship, spaceship, spaceship.”
No one?
Yeah, uh… me neither.
Okay so, Smokey is FLocke. And he was the Man in Black… and FAlex and FYemi… probably FChristian. After this episode there’s really very little to dispute it. Yes, it was odd that FLocke sort of ducked behind that pillar before Smokey arrived at the other end of Jacob’s chamber… but you have to remember, this show tries to stay away from complicated Digital FX as much as possible. And we should be glad for that. Because they’re not very good at them… in general, television doesn’t have the schedule to support cinema quality DFX yet.
Yes, other sci-fi shows can get by with goofy looking effects, but Lost wasn’t really sold to us as sci-fi. Not in the beginning. And so when we see something that looks more like a gummy bear than a polar bear, it takes us out of the moment. We want this show to feel real… even when someone’s turning a donkey wheel.
Which means we’re more likely to see Locke dashing into a telephone booth to change into Smokey before we’ll see a transformation before our eyes. Of course, since this show is a mystery, we’ll then be inclined to ask “Why a telephone booth? What’s the relationship to telephony?”
Well, I will give this episode some serious points on its creative approach to Smokey’s transformation. The POV of Smokey was great… although, I wish it would have shown us a bit more. How cool would it have been for him to travel to areas of the Island we haven’t seen? Quickly fly past something amazingly cryptic and fascinating? I feel like LOST would have done something like that in earlier seasons. I guess I’m still waiting for some of it this season.
Now, this might just be my own personal peve, but I am gonna have to take a couple points away from the episode for the addition of a “creepy-kid”. Seriously? A friggin “creepy-kid”? I mean, I know the writers love Stephen King, but does anyone really find “creepy-kids” creepy anymore? Yeah yeah, it’s probably a young Jacob… or an older Aaron. Or both. But still… enough with the “creepy kids”!………….. Sorry, I just had to vent there for a sec.
Anyway, I liked this episode. I wasn’t blown away. I still feel like this season is starting slow, but that may be a good thing. I’m hoping it means a rapid acceleration in the second half of the season and then a strong payoff at the end. I would definitely rather have that than the other way around.
It’s hard not to like Locke episodes. And it’s certainly nice to see him back in the real world again; the old Locke we love. But is it just me, or is there something missing from this new alti-Locke? I know we want all of these characters to find what they’ve been searching for… but part of why I found Locke so endearing was the constant uphill battle… the unfair obstacles he was always facing. And for me, so much of that was gone in this episode.
Sure, he’s still in a wheel chair, he’s still stubbornly facing off against the world… but having Helen in his life, the upcoming marriage, the Hugo job save, even the Rose lesson… it put this nice little bow on Locke that for me kind of watered down his journey a bit.
I’ll stop there. I gotta be careful how I talk about that character. I know there are some Lost fans who would jump in front of a bullet for that man.
So these were the questions I had watching the show:
1.) I’m gonna say that Ilana was in love with Jacob. I think that was pretty clear, right? The way she picked up his ashes. All those shared looks with Sun. So I’m wondering how old she is. Is it possible she’s as old as Richard? That they’re from the same era, actually? I guess now I’m trying to figure out why Ilana was injured in that Russian hospital at the end of last season… when Jacob came to her asking for help.
2.) @melbee85 tweeted yesterday asking whether I thought the creators planned from the beginning for Jack’s spinal surgeon occupation to come together with Locke’s paralysis. It’s funny, but I guess, since we’ve gotten to know Locke so much better on the Island than in his paralyzed state, I never really thought about the fact that those two story elements were so compatible. Now, I don’t think the season 1 writers knew the specifics of all this parallel universe stuff. It may have been tossed out as a possible direction for the series, but there’s no way they had it mapped out… especially not the inter-dynamics of some of the characters. However, it’s hard to imagine that the writers put a spinal surgeon and a paraplegic in the same story and didn’t expect their paths to eventually merge in that way. But I guess the question is: did the writers imagine from the beginning that Jack might eventually be Locke’s salvation in this way? To be honest, I’ve never considered it until now… it’s an interesting question. And yeah, I’d love to think the writers planned something like that from the beginning.
3.) Is there any significance to Ben’s new occupation as a European History teacher? In the original timeline, Ben has no real history off the Island. That would lead me to believe that most of the elements of his new alti-life are in some way tied to the history of Ben we do know. And so I guess that line sort of stuck out to me. What elements of European History have relevance to Ben’s story on the Island? The Black Rock?
4.) The names that were chalked on the cave ceiling: While I do kind of hope for more of an explanation to the numbers (4 8 15 16 23 42) than this, my guess is it’s all we’re getting. So, what I took from the scene is that everyone who’s come to the Island has been given a number. And it seems that these 6 are the most important to Jacob and, therefore, have some special… I don’t know, “lotto winning” power? I’m curious whether the crossed out names indicate a deceased person? Or is it simply someone who was not deemed worthy enough? But the bigger question is… where is Kate on that ceiling? Is this a hint that Kate’s life somehow hangs in the balance?
5.) Why were the scales tilted slightly towards the dark rock even before FLock chucked the white one? Are these scales supposed to represent the current balance between darkness and light? Has darkness been winning out even before Jacob’s death? Is that why Richard is so terrified? Does this mean a complete takeover by darkness?
6.) And I guess my biggest question deals with the essence of FLocke. We know this isn’t Locke… but… is taking this form, causing Smokey to partly think like Locke. “Don’t tell me what I can’t do!!” Even the way he jokes or persuades others. I know people keep noting that FLocke seems different than Locke. In this episode, Sawyer sees through Smokey’s disguise, saying that Locke was always scared, while FLocke seems fearless. But to me, they only seem slightly different on the surface. The essence still feels the same. Not really good or evil. Just driven. Ilana did say Smokey’s now stuck in this FLocke form. Does that have something to do with it?
There’s even a part of me that wonders… with all this time traveling and parallel universe stuff going on… is it possible that the Black Smoke is Locke.
I think I just confused myself.
So what about you? What are the questions you have after this episode? I mean, first of all, did you like this episode?

Strunkette on 18 Feb 2010 at 9:05 am #
Terry O’Quinn can carry an episode better than anyone else I know.
I liked this episode and am one of those that is just enjoying the final season of my favorite show. I don’t need super indepth explanations to all the questions. Though I’m convinced there is more to the numbers I’ll be ok if this is the only explanation we get. I love trying to figure it all out but I’m not going to revolt if it doesn’t turn out the way I think…I’m hoping it doesn’t
Kansas on 18 Feb 2010 at 10:10 am #
I loved this episode. Last week I know will make more sense later but it was nice to have a little more excitement. I adore Locke episodes for some reason I can never explain. Excited to see more of the temple hopefully next week to try and figure that out.
I think she is older than she appears. I am not sure how much older but I wouldn’t be surprised if she is from the same time as Richard.
I do feel everything in the pari-universe gives us a better understanding of the same characters on the Island. I’m excited to see the deal with Ben’s character as a specific history teacher. For a high school and him to be that specific I think that was a definite clue.
Ok to answer the question about Kate, if you listen FLocke says the Kwan could be either Sun or Jin…my friend and I theorized that it could only be male names as a possible candidate to take over Jacob’s position. He crossed Locke’s name out so I’m assuming that once darkness has overcome them (literal death or metaphorical death) their name is crossed out.
We also felt “creepy kid” was older Aaron as a future Jacob. That he very well was the candidate that would take that role. Technically, he could be a Shepherd. Also, the statement by not being able to kill him could very well point to the fact that Jacob’s role has been taken up by someone else.
I did like the fear that Richard had. We usually see him very calm and collected and to see him in utter fear of FLocke is, I feel, a huge indicator of what COULD happen if he is not stopped.
Again, there was a wide variety of biblical references with the fake Locke. This episode he was more of Satan tempting Jesus in the desert by lying and saying nothing would happen if there is not a new Jacob.
My brain’s still digesting.
Pauline on 18 Feb 2010 at 10:48 am #
Not a spaceship… geekier than that. I was hoping it was going to be a giant statue within the cavern. But not any statue. One like from the movie Labyrinth… you know, the Goblin statue that was actually a robot piloted by a couple of stupid Goblins. Yes, I’m that dork… and yes… I was really hoping for another giant statue.
Wow… that was many paragraphs up there dedicated MIB/Smokey.
Regarding Alt Locke… I’m not so thrilled with the Alt story lines. I’m going to think they’re brilliant after we know why they are there and how they will work in the grand mythology of the show but right now they are just sort of flat for me. But as far as Locke… I’m not going to defend him because he runs hot/cold for me and I’ve always found him to be a little self absorbed regardless of the safety of the group. But I don’t agree that he has a new bow. He is just reacting differently to the same shit but I don’t think his internal struggle is any different. I don’t think it’s watered down… He has submitted to the circumstances for now and is just trying to go along with the flow… but on the inside… you can see it in his eyes… he is screaming to get out. I think his performances in Alt world will be much more subtle and nuanced.
Here is my question… what is the deal with “Jacob’s Cabin?” The Black Ash around it… who was being held there? Was it MIB but had he gotten free BEFORE 815 crashed? Who was it that said, Help me? and why did he need help if it was MIB becaues he was cruising around on the island as smokey. Please… explain the cabin. AS you see… I’m confused, utterly confused, about that.
Otherwise, I’d love here more about what you think of Kate’s not having a number. YOu may know how I feel about that… I’d love to hear what you think about it.
Oh… and I still think of MIB as Odo from DS9.
Mélanie on 18 Feb 2010 at 11:23 am #
Am I the only one who laughed when Ben appeared in the alti-world. He just looked so geeky!
I do wonder if the numbers are random or it’s meaning something (like an order or something). I also wonder if FLocke has his own candidate. We didn’t see it of course and he just recruited someone on Jacob’s list, but I wonder why Jacob would have a list and not Smokey.
Of course, his offer to Sawyer just seems way too simple. I can’t wait to find out what FLocke hides from Sawyer.
As for Locke, I agree that it was a great Locke episode. I guess I missed seeing Locke as himself. I have to say though, I wasn’t sure if they were overdoing the whole Losties connection; Hugo buying Locke’s company; Rose working for him. Locke now working in a school with Ben. I don’t know, felt it was perhaps a little bit much?
Seeing Locke with Helen and the wedding ahead, it made me wonder how altered is his reality. I mean, is it altered just from few weeks before they all went on that plane? Or does it goes beyond that?
Am I the only one noticing Helen mentionned Locke’s dad when she was talking about the wedding? Now, I may just lack of memory; perhaps she was referring to a step father? Because if not a) would it mean he is reconciled with his father and b) how would he have gotten paralized then?
I asked the Jack/Locke question before ending the epsiode, shame on me. When I saw Helen tear the card apart, I wondered if after all there is any meaning. Or perhaps he will still manage to stumble across Jack’s path in another alti-flash? I don’t know that the authors had planned this episode from season 1, but having Jack being a spinal surgeon and Locked being paralized clearly had a goal. Well, I’m hoping,
And I too wonder what it means about Kate. Perhaps she’s been planned to be on Smokey team? Maybe she erh.. I don’t know. Hopefully well find out soon.
TheGamesAFoot aka Courtney K. on 18 Feb 2010 at 11:50 am #
Creepy kid could be older Aaron?? You, YOU just blew my mind John Cabrera!! I didn’t even consider that! *smacks head*
I just thought “oh, is that a young Jacob now? What year are we in now? 1980 or present??” and left it at that.
I didn’t think “SPACESHIP” but I did expect to see some sort of living quarters with a flat screen displaying everystuff or a giant book…or a frozen carbonite statue of someone we’ve met/loved/lost. That’s right, frozen carbonite.
I did furrow my brow when the camera finally panned over, “Graffitti???” I muttered, then started furiously trying to read the names.
Ok, so if “KWON” could be either Sun or Jin what about their daughter? Couldn’t “Shepherd” be Jack, Christian, Aaron OR Claire the Wild Things Are? I also found myself scrambling to find any name that could be Kate’s; do we even know her last name?
I have a wonky theory about the crossing out of Locke’s name as a candidate. In Alti-World, Locke becomes fulfilled. He accepts his fragility, comes clean with himself and Helen, and then begins a life that seems to give him the sense of accomplishment he didn’t have before. Thereby removing the desire for escapism and that aching wish to be somewhere he’s not. Meaning, he doesn’t need the Island anymore making his candidacy defunct. I feel like Alti-Locke’s story has ended and we’ll not see any more of him allowing us to focus our attention on FLocke and his smokey-blackness.
I think that the whole gathering of the ash thing was for protection; ‘member when SmokeyFLocke killed all those guys after Ben killed Jacob? The one guy made an ash circle to protect himself. Didn’t do much good, but hey he tried.
JIM on 18 Feb 2010 at 11:53 am #
I’ve trying to remember who says this, when or where… sadly I can’t. All I can offer as “proof” is that I rewatched the entire show before this season began, and I distinctly remember Someone (it might’ve been one of the Others, maybe around the time when Sawyer and Kate where in those cages) saying about Kate: “She’s not on the list”.
This line stuck in my head because I remember thinking “WHAT LIST??”. There’s been SEVERAL lists (the passenger manifest, the one Ben gets from Ethan and Goodwin, the kids, the one Michael gets of people to bring back with him…etc) and I’m not sure which one they meant.
So, could it be that they meant THIS list, the one in the ceiling?
Or was I just not paying attention properly?
PS. It’s very frustrating when one character says “I have all the answers.” And no one bothers to say: “Fine. But before we go anywhere, you explain EVERYTHING to me.” Understandable, I guess. But frustrating.
DJSmackMackey on 18 Feb 2010 at 12:06 pm #
I got to thinking that perhaps the Island is sorta like Tartarus. A prison for evil gods, and Jacob was the prison guard. Do we know for certain that there is only one smoke monster? Perhaps Jacob could take the smoke monster form? The writers called the smoke monster “Cerberus” and the others call it a security system. And in mythology, Cerberus had a brother. Maybe Smokey Locke is Jacob’s brother? And maybe the creepy kid is actually another of the gods? Considering Ancient Egypt and Ancient Rome crossed paths, and their mythologies are borrowed from each other, maybe Lost is combining multiple mythologies into a “what if those gods really existed, and they were still around now?”
I followed link after link on Wikipedia after this episode, and now my frain is bried.
John Cabrera on 18 Feb 2010 at 12:19 pm #
Pauline, if this show gave us a robot in any way, you guys would get a Lost post here like none other. You didn’t even have to explain the Labarynth look of it either. The moment you said robot, I could see the exact one you were talking about.
I guess those paragraphs were less about Smokey to me and more about the tendency we sometimes have (my recent Foot post being another example) to give the show leeway for odd choices that are likely rooted in production budget. Sometimes those workarounds are worked into the mythology… but sometimes they hope we’ll look past them.
Kansas, I love your theory about all the names being men and Shepherd perhaps being Aaron. Especially since Sawyer gave us that verbal reminder that the name belongs to Jack. But it makes me wonder why Jacob brought women to the Island at all. Why Jacob sent Kate to 1977. Also, if FLocke said he isn’t sure which Kwon it is, that would mean it either can be Sun and therefore a woman… or FLocke hasn’t spent much time in the cave to realize that every name written is a man. I would imagine with all that Smokey knows, it wouldn’t take him long to realize that no female last names are written on the wall. Or do you think that women’s names have been written on the wall, but crossed out because Jacob decided after the fact that they won’t work.
I also kept thinking about Satan vs. God in this episode. I didn’t really want to, but I couldn’t help it. The symbolism was pretty “in our faces”. It did also get me thinking that if Smokey is a form of Satan, then maybe his desire to go home is somehow rooted in Lucifer’s fall from heaven as an angel. You know me and the metaphysical, though. I’d be fine with it being allegory for a more scientific reason… but I’d feel gypped if this was simply a God vs. Devil story.
But I suppose many more would feel gypped if it was a spaceship.
P, I don’t know about Alti-Locke. Obviously, I can only speak for myself, but I loved old Locke because I was always rooting for him in the flashback. As flawed as he was, I could see why he was making all of these mistakes. I could relate to making mistakes like that. It was painful… but oddly satisfying to watch. We could see the bomb under his chair that he couldn’t. And that drove, at least, my hopes and fears for the man. I just didn’t feel that same sense of vested interest in his new circumstances. Nothing felt fleeting. Nothing felt at jeopardy. It was just a frustrated man, screaming on the inside as you put it. That’s not enough for me… especially if the Island Locke isn’t really Locke.
I guess that’s why I’m hoping that somehow Smokey is Locke or at least is taking on some of the same personality and struggle. I really liked the moment when FLocke cracked and shouted at the “creepy-kid”.
Cass on 18 Feb 2010 at 12:22 pm #
My geeky response to the cave scene was to pause the episode, jump up, and run REALLY close to the screen and read all the names and their corresponding numbers. Then proceeded to jump for joy. Then realized I’m a big idiot bcuz in the next scene, Flocke and Sawyer talk about each name and they are all shown to us. I love being a Lostie. Anyways…
Questions that concern me: 3, 4, and 6
3.) THERE IS significance to Ben’s new occupation as a European History teacher bc Michael Emerson was on Jimmy Kimmel the night of the episode and he pretty much said so. He said his new occupation would have “great conclusions” or soemthing to that effect.
4.) KATE ISNT ON THE CEILING!?! or else they would have shown it. 2 concerns here: 1. We are out of numbers (ie. THE numbers are all taken up by the 6 candidate names we were shown) and 2. MAKES NO SENSE because Kate was also touched by Jacob, as the rest of the candidates were.
so WHAT THE EFF!?
Finally 6) Sawyer says this new FLocke is afraid of nothing. BUT!!! he seems quite disturbed and frightened by “creepy kid” as you call him, leading me to believe the kid to be Jacob for sure because what else scares Man in Black except for Jacob?
These are just the thoughts of one crazy lost fan..
Cass on 18 Feb 2010 at 12:25 pm #
final PS. John u may be correct in thinking that Smokey has taken some of original Locke into FLocke because he yells at the creepy kid
“DONT TELL ME WHAT I CANT DO!”
which is classic Locke, so why would Man in Black say that?
Rae on 18 Feb 2010 at 12:37 pm #
Have faith, John. I’m sure the spaceship controls are further down. MIB wouldn’t reveal those until he has Sawyer firmly on his side of the court.
My friend Jody brought up a good point about Kate, that maybe she’s not on the list because she promised Jacob she’d stop stealing when he touched her… and she didn’t. (And she also pointed out that Jacob touched both Sun and Jin so it’s possible the Kwon on the wall really is how Jacob’s touch came together into one being: Ji Yeon.
There’s something fishy about the sideways flashes. I mean, I guess we knew that anyway but, as noted above in the comments, Locke mentions his Dad. And we know it’s that confrontation that leads to his being paralyzed. We already know things are different in this world but if things like that are drastically different but other things are the same, is it the timeline trying to self correct again like we saw it do with Charlie?
Also, Locke never has that moment of deja vu or recognition that we saw from both Jack and Kate. And I’d say we’ve seen enough of Rose and Hurley in these episodes to say they’re not having those moments either. Do only those in the radius of the bomb blast experience that? (This doesn’t seem to be consistent with the fact that Hurley and Sayid still ended up in the same time/place as the others at the bomb site.)
I’ll be honest, I didn’t find the Boy in Tan all that creepy. I guess he was supposed to be (or not? Sawyer wasn’t all that creeped out by him tho I guess he takes most everything in stride) but mostly I just found it interesting about him was MIB’s reaction to him. Pretty sure he’s either Jacob or some entity equal to MIB just from that reaction alone.
I like your theory about Ilana and Jacob. Though I figured she took the ash more as protection than as a momento. I guess because it’s not the first time we’ve seen ash be important? Maybe I’m assuming that implied a connection when there isn’t one?
Rae on 18 Feb 2010 at 12:37 pm #
Oh, dang, I forgot to answer your first question. I did like the episode. Didn’t love it but I did enjoy it more than last week’s. I think Terry O’Quinn is great but I’ve come to hate Locke (putting on my bullet proof vest now). So I never *love* Locke episodes like others do. That said, Alt-Locke actually reminded me of the Locke I used to like so that was nice.
John Cabrera on 18 Feb 2010 at 12:46 pm #
Smack, yeah, I do think that’s what’s going on here, and I’ve been planing a post about it. We’ve seen clues to Roman/Greek mythology. The chocolate bars in the Swan (and the one Jacob gave Jack at the hospital) were called Apollo bars. The name Swan is perhaps from the myth of Apollo’s birth on a moving Island pulled by swans.
But I think it goes even further past Egypt and Rome… into other religions and mythologies of ancient cultures of the world. So yes, it’s possible that the question is “what if those gods really existed, and there were sill around now?” but also asks “”Were they actually gods… or did man just call them gods… are they something else?”
JIM, agreed, frustrating. But that’s soap opera, unfortunately… or maybe fortunately, depending on how you look at it. And I did think about “the List” too. But my gut tells me there’s a list at the Temple, and so if this cave graffiti is related, it may very well inform that list.
@mpascucci14 on 18 Feb 2010 at 12:51 pm #
I really liked this episode, but there aren’t many Locke eps I don’t like. The Alt story was interesting in the sense of how some of the old connections were still there, (hugo owning the company, Rose and Locke having that shared plight), but things were still so different. I think though the alt locke is somehow more beaten than the locke we knew. He has no faith, and I never got that impression from old locke even during his flashbacks.
As far as Ilana, I don’t know why, but I have a feeling that her and Jacob are related. Father/daughter maybe, it would certainly keep with the daddy issues theme this show has. But the collection of the ashes was definitely a mourning thing. She wanted to keep them. And she clearly knows a lot more than initially thought.
I like that MIB is stuck as Locke, and that maybe Locke in some way is rubbing off on him now. Though in regards to Christian, we’ve seen him on island post MIB inhabiting Locke, so can Christian even be smokey?
The wall was interesting, and I too remember someone a while ago saying Kate wasn’t on the list, but I’m not sure how aware the others were of that wall. But I also remember locke telling Kate that he tried to make a case for her to come with him and the others, but then the others told him what she did. Or something like that. Why is she there then, or why he went to go see her off island is now more interesting.
http://www.docarzt.com/lost/losts-writing-on-the-walls-whos-a-candidate/ this site has all the names they could find off the wall.
As far as the kid, i looked at it like every other apparition on the island. I was more interested that Flocke was scared of him, and that Sawyer could see him too. Is this cause Sawyer and Locke are both candidates, and Richard was not? Could explain why Richard was never in line to be boss, and always a number 2.
interesting theory i saw: Ben healed in clean water, can kill jacob, sayid healed in dirty water, maybe can kill MIB?
Rae on 18 Feb 2010 at 12:57 pm #
I’m with DJSmack. That’s what I’ve been thinking about the Island since the beginning of the season. It explains why Smokey is trapped on the island and is so deperate to get off. But also why he can’t kill Jacob and why Jacob would essentially be a “prisoner” of the island too while still having the freedom to leave the island occasionally.
The name Littleton is on the wall (right above his flame in that picture) and that was Claire’s last name. While I’ll buy that Shepherd could be Jack or Christian, I don’t think we can include Claire and Aaron in there. Christian may be her father but her last name isn’t Shepherd so why would that be Aaron’s? Even after The Six get rescued, he takes on Kate’s last name not Jack’s, right? And then he’s given back to Claire’s mother. I dunno, unless it’s supposed to represent bloodlines (and the presence of Littleton on the wall seems to suggest otherwise), I can’t go with that theory.
John Cabrera on 18 Feb 2010 at 1:00 pm #
Rae, exactly! No one finds “creepy kids” creepy anymore. I don’t care if you put them in a little victorian dress or have blood dripping from their hands, if I see a “creepy kid” at the end of a hallway, I’m like, “Oh hey, look everybody. It’s a ‘creepy kid’”.
Yeah, ash is definitely important here, but Ilana also kept giving Sun those sadface looks. Like, “you know my pain, don’t you?”
Oh, and P, I’m formulating a theory about “Jacob’s Cabin”. I hope for it to be the subject of an upcoming post.
John Cabrera on 18 Feb 2010 at 1:10 pm #
And yeah, Rae, you’re probably right about Shepherd vs. Littleton. But are you saying this “all men” theory has no legs either? I couldn’t really read much on that wall. Are there any women on there?
Rae on 18 Feb 2010 at 1:13 pm #
Also. John. Are you combining your two theories then? Because you talk about a post religions and mythologies of ancient cultures of the world… but at the beginning of this post you admit you were hoping to see the reveal of a control deck. What are you saying about our ancient religions and mythologies?!
I feel like we’ve moved into Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull territory and that scares me.
Vanalam on 18 Feb 2010 at 1:15 pm #
I definitely liked this week’s episode better than last week’s, although it still wasn’t one of my favorites for many of the same reasons other people have mentioned.
Am I one of the only people who thinks that FLocke’s third option for Sawyer, getting off the Island TOGETHER, is a bit ominous? Maybe it’s some sort of loophole, like when FLocke couldn’t kill Jacob because of the “rules,” but he could get Ben to do it for him. Maybe if FLocke can convince a living person (or perhaps it has to be one of Jacob’s “chosen” people?), wittingly or unwittingly, to agree to FLocke, I don’t know, taking over their living body somehow that the Man in Black will finally be able to get off the Island? I haven’t really thought of logistics for this, but the fact that Smokey/MIB can take other forms and talked to Sawyer about getting off the island together seemed a bit suspicious to me.
Oh, and sorry, John, but I’m one of those people who would feel gypped if there are spaceships or aliens involved. I like stories involving those, but, for some reason, in general, I prefer those separated from stories involving mythological/supernatural things. But, I also want something more than a simple God vs. Satan story too. That would be too easy.
Rae on 18 Feb 2010 at 1:17 pm #
Not sure about the all men theory because Littleton could theoretically represent Aaron.
If we trust the list of names the Lostpedia folks have compiled, it looks like all of the names that could possible represent females we’ve met previously… could also represent males with the same surname. Except for, perhaps, Shannon.
John Cabrera on 18 Feb 2010 at 1:26 pm #
To answer your question Rae, (and I know you’re gonna hate to hear it)…………………. ♫ Da dadda Daaa. Da daddaaaa! Da dada Daaaaaaaa, da dada da da ♫ <-I know I’m not doing John Williams justice, but you could hear the melody, right?
Rae on 18 Feb 2010 at 1:31 pm #
Oy vey. Well, if you’re right, I hope they do it better than IJatKotCS did. (Though, for the record, I actually enjoyed the movie more than most did.)
Rae on 18 Feb 2010 at 1:40 pm #
Yes, I heard it. Then I had to go to YT and actually hear it.
John Cabrera on 18 Feb 2010 at 1:43 pm #
mpascucci14, we have seen Christian post FLocke… but we haven’t seen him post Jacob’s death. It’s likely that was the event that somehow “locked FLocke into Locke” <-like how I did that?
It's possible that by being stuck in the Locke form… FLocke is actually slowly transforming into Locke, or taking on more of his traits.
As for Sawyer, remember… he could also see Kate's black stallion. Are these really apparitions? Or is Sawyer special in this way?
Pauline on 18 Feb 2010 at 1:54 pm #
Excellent… thanks J.
As far as the names… there is a list on Lostpedia… http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates#Known_candidates
Most of the names crossed out are of people we know to be dead.
As far as Kate… I think she is Jacob’s daughter and that is why she is on the island. It was never spoken aloud that Wayne was her father. Who is to say that her mother… who’d cheated on her husband with Wayne… wouldn’t cheat on him with Jacob? But if Wayne was her real father why didn’t her mother tell her after she done blowed him up? What a great way to get back at the daughter you can’t forgive? Rub that info in her face if it is indeed fact?
And her interaction with Jacob was sort of different than the other interactions he had… it was almost fatherly. The way he told her to “be good.” Who hasn’t had their father say that to them? I think it is kind of important that Kate gave young been her blood for a transfusion also. It might hold implications for why Ben was able to Kill Jacob. But, you guys know me… I’m crazy.
And think about how Widmore and Ben used their daughters as a part of the war between themselves… Might they be walking the same path as Jacob/MIB? Donning those archetypes?
As for a bomb underneath Locke’s chair. There is no bigger bomb in this life than deciding to marry someone because it is expected of you. She loves him for who he is… he, obviously wants to be someone else if he tried to go on that walkabout.
About Flocke? I think MIB/Smokey is like Dax on DS9 (here I go again) it’s it’s own entity but retains the memories of the host.
Oh… haven’t we always known that Hurley owned the box company that Locke worked at. In a flashback there had been some kind of disaster at his box making plant or something, right?
P.S. The Temple = Troy
But who or what will be the Trojan Horse?
Kyle on 18 Feb 2010 at 2:12 pm #
Cass–I did the same exact thing–I paused and stepped through frame by frame, only to have them read off later on. I almost felt insulted that they felt the need the read them off and over explain the names! Don’t they know the fans will notice these small details?!
One thing I didn’t like was the odd reveal of Ben as the teacher–they made it out to be a surprise, but you could instantly tell it was him by the voice.
As for the “creepy kid”, my first and only thought was that he was Jacob–never even considered Aaron.
When Ilana took the ashes, I had assumed there is some sort of mystical power to the white ashes of Jacob.
One thing that confused me was when Ilana said that Jacob now looked like Locke and he could no longer change that. But if he was somehow Christian, and possibly Claire, then how was he able to change his shape before, but now is Locked into this one (pun intended)?
John Cabrera on 18 Feb 2010 at 2:21 pm #
Puns are totally allowed and welcome here.
Hmm… white ash vs black ash………………… interesting.
Strunkette on 18 Feb 2010 at 2:49 pm #
Pauline- love the Troy=Temple
It makes me think that maybe Sawyer is the Trojan Horse. They are fighting to keep FLocke out of the temple…maybe its his only way off the island. The Temple others want Sawyer back with them so maybe they’ll let him in….
I also noticed the white ash and thought she took it for protection, but maybe it’s even more special than the regular black ash.
Fun stuff!
Pauline on 18 Feb 2010 at 3:01 pm #
When Ilana took the ashes I assumed she was going to use them to do some crazy spell with the blood of a fawn to bring him back to life.
What?
Aaron on 18 Feb 2010 at 3:39 pm #
I really liked the episode. I felt we were getting some answers (though they may actually be misdirections).
I really hope they explain the meaning behind the flash-sideways sooner rather than later. I’ve always loved the flash-backs. I’ve enjoyed the flash-forwards (though to a lesser extent). With the flash-backs, those scenes were always riveting to me because they were almost never filler. The flash-backs seemed to ALWAYS inform us and explain the motives of the characters on the island. So, John, I think when I read that you and others are finding the flash-sideways to be a little flat it’s because we don’t know why we are seeing them and it breaks the precedent that was set up in earlier seasons.
And how bout that moment when Ben says he respected and murdered Locke? Classic LOST moment. A rare disclosure of truth for Ben.
dumptruckmolly on 18 Feb 2010 at 4:36 pm #
I’m short on time and haven’t read all the comments… so forgive me if I’m repeating anything that anyone else has said.
I LOVED this episode! I loved everything about it, creepy kid and all! I love that the creepy kid freaked Flocke out. I think the idea of it being baby Jacob or older Aaron is interesting.
I love Sawyer drinking in his underwear while listening to the Stooges.
I love that off island Locke is with Helen and that his life is happy-ish! He really deserves it. I’m really interested in the fact that his dad doesn’t suck, as Helen wanted to take his dad with them to Vegas to get married. So… if his dad rules, he didn’t push him out a window… if he didn’t push him out a window, Locke is paralyze for another reason.
ALSO… if Locke’s dad doesn’t suck, maybe Sawyer’s parents aren’t dead because they weren’t conned?
Or…. Locke has a totally different dad and it has nothing to do with Sawyer.
But, somehow, Locke doesn’t have all those daddy issues, and those daddy issues were the main reason he was so lost and miserable.
I find myself loving Flocke and I can’t help it, he’s slightly evil and very interesting. I don’t trust him, though.
I love history teacher Ben! I hope he’s a really good person with only a slight hint of creep.
I love that Kate’s name wasn’t on the wall. I think it’s because Kate sucks and shouldn’t be trusted with anything, but I hate her so I’m biased.
I thought this episode totally delivered all the awesomeness I could ever hope for.
I read in TV Guide that Damon Lindelof confirmed the island sinking was a result of the explosion… How did baby Ben and baby Ethan get off the island in 1977?
Mandy on 18 Feb 2010 at 6:20 pm #
I loved this episode mainly because we got lots of Locke and mmmSawyer
Yes. I was, John. I was so ready to mess myself when the freakin spaceship was revealed!
When Richard appeared in the jungle, desperately trying to convince Sawyer to go with him, he reminded me of a brainwashed cult member – freaking out because the prophet isn’t there to protect them.
I just assumed the kid was Jacob. Your idea that he maybe Aaron is sooo much better.
Also, you can add me to the list of Losties who were desperately trying to read names
SilentTS on 18 Feb 2010 at 6:26 pm #
To make a creepy kid creepy these days, you’ve got to go younger: babies. That’s where the creep factor’s at.
John Cabrera on 18 Feb 2010 at 7:13 pm #
The thing about those Flash-Backs, Aaron (and to a degree, the Flash-Forwards) is that there was struggle. These characters were working through something in their past that directly related to what they were struggling towards on the Island. But with all of these new histories it seems so much of that conflict is gone, replaced with deja vu and rehashed versions of “Don’t tell me what I can’t do!”… And I don’t agree P, I don’t think his new relationship with Helen was presented in any way as unfortunate… as a loss of some kind… not compared to what he and the audience had to endure 1st-3rd season. Which is fine… we want our stories to have a resolution, we want our characters to find happiness. But we’re still 13 episodes from the end. I want suspense, real personal struggles, not, “I’m so glad Locke is finally getting the happy life he’s always deserved.”
Rae on 18 Feb 2010 at 7:30 pm #
John, we may be 13 episodes from the end but Locke getting his happy ending here may be because we literally buried the real Locke in this episode.
Yesterday I was thinking about how sad John’s got shafted at both of his funerals. At least the first time Jack attended and he actually seemed to feel some remorse about what had happened. I guess Ben feels that role this time? Except in both cases each guy is really feeling bad about their role in the death, not because they actually cared about Locke.
In that respect, it feels about time we get to see Locke have some happiness. Even if it’s in another time/place.
Loic on 18 Feb 2010 at 7:42 pm #
I too tend to find these a little longer than regular Lost eps. Especially the flash-sideways…lots of over-explaining and time fillers (how many time have we looked at John’s card?…)
Could it be that they are more of a “common dream”?? involving people you know and everything getting fixed?…
Also, I am a little confused with all the different possobilities as to where the f… is Jacob now : white ash? Said? not-so-creepy kid? What are you thinking at this point??
(I have to say that if that kid is Jacob, the cast team nailed it : the resemblance is almost weird)
As for Kate, let me try to help her. I always found her not more flawed than the others, but without all the grand explanations or excuses for her mistakes they all give or are given to. In a way more honest with her flaws than a crying Jack who’s always going to fall in the same traps anyways. Maybe she’s just more accepting of fatalidestiny…(and so I like the Jacob’s daughter theory quite a bit…). More like water than fire….
…but then again, I can’t even trust my judgement knowing how stupid I look as soon as her eyes are on screen…
Pauline on 18 Feb 2010 at 8:01 pm #
I don’t think you are understanding me J. I am agreeing with you. I also don’t want them to tie up the John Locke Alt life in a nice bow. But what I am saying that is different is that I don’t think that is what is happening here. On the surface, it may look like his life isn’t unfortunate but I still think he feels as though something is missing. I still think he feels all that anger and frustration at the universe but is bottling it. Just in the way he was sitting in the tub flopping that fabric around… deep in thought. And his smiles… except for when he was laughing about the sprinkler… they seemed a bit forced. Like he is smiling for everyone else… not himself. Something is brewing there and I think it’s going to simmer and eventually boil over. I mean, he just lied to his boss and tried to go on walkabout… Something is really wrong there if he lied to his fiance, lied to his boss and left the country for an impossible adventure. That does not sound like a happy man.
We DO still have 13 more episodes. I think he’ll see his life explode in typical Lost fashion. If I’m wrong… I’ll buy you a “King of Lost” trophy.
Oh… the whole God.Vs Satan thing. I think it is hard NOT to think about that but I think it’s more complicated than G v S but still quite accurate. Does that make sense? I’ve been thinking about The Purge lately and comparing it to Jim Jones. To me the Others have always been willing to do so many awful things in the name of Jacob (though, who knows who has been giving some of these crazy orders). To me it feels more like lessons in how the devil can live in the hearts of the righteous who do evil things in the name of good (God). Sort of mirrors what is going on in world events, no? I would hope that TPtB are aware of this and wouldn’t make it so easy as the guy in white wins cause he’s godly… or something.
John Cabrera on 18 Feb 2010 at 8:36 pm #
No, I understand what you mean exactly, P. I just don’t agree that there’s a real struggle here. A guy bummed out cause he can’t do what he wants to do isn’t active. Struggle is active. And as unhappy as he may be, that episode totally presented Helen as a light in his life… and Hugo as a savior… and Rose as an inspirational teacher. Which is nice… we want that for him. But it’s just information. Now maybe at some point in the season that will all be turned on it’s head. Maybe he’ll make another big mistake in the name of these real urges you’re referring to… and maybe they’ll compromises all of this new happiness and security… That could be interesting. But until that happens (and it may not), this is the episode we’ve got. And for me, it just didn’t have much real struggle and did feel very “wrapping things up” for Locke.
Pauline on 18 Feb 2010 at 10:11 pm #
I think then that I’m projecting onto Locke. I’ve had doctor’s give up on me… I’ve quietly struggled with the life I envisioned for myself vs. the new limitations of irreversible conditions… I’ve tried to settle for what I was supposed to want given my new limitations. I’ve decimated my life out of the frustration that comes from being unable to change a physical condition.
It might not be exciting to watch… but to me it is compelling. It’s a giant internal struggle in what just looks exactly like real life. And isn’t that what this new stupid Alt reality is supposed to be? (have I mentioned that I’m not so happy with Alt World?) What normal life would look like if they hadn’t have crashed on the island? Why are they different than the original 815ers? Maybe because the people on that first flight were destined to crash. They had to go through certain things to reach that destiny. Maybe to live in Alt World… they had to be people destined to live in Alt World and therefore had to go through different things or else they wouldn’t fit..?
It is a tiny bit interesting to me that you, the man who enjoys the tiny little nuances in Sawyer’s character… the way he took his glasses off when he saw Kate for example… but not accept that in Locke. It seems to be flaily, boneless chicken Locke flopping in the sand or nothing for you…
Man… if Locke doesn’t shoot his father on his wedding day and then ditch Helen to go have Jack give him surgery… I’m in deep doo doo.
Ed R on 20 Feb 2010 at 2:33 pm #
Man, I will be very happy when someone writes a total synopsis of all episodes and the whys and wheres.
Who the hell is Flocke? Weren’t you guys saying just a couple months ago that the Smoke Monster was an Egyptian God who ate souls of the unworthy?
SarahSamudre on 21 Feb 2010 at 1:40 am #
Better late than never?
Ilana intrigues me. She is intimate with the rules that keep Smokey & Jacob in eternal battle. She knows about the temple, where it is, how to use the ash, when to gather it (I don’t think that Jacob’s ashes in that episode was the first pile of Jacob’s ashes. Just the ashes of another candidate that had been chosen by Jacob. I think her picking them up was a practical move- being prepared for another likely encounter with the Smoke). Here’s why I LOVE her character- she didn’t know Richard, whom she addressed as Riccardus. She knows more than anyone on the Island & she doesn’t know ageless Richard, who has presumably been on the Island for 200 years? WHAT? Does that mean she is ageless like he is? But part of Jacob’s off-island contingent that we saw in season 4?
As far as the candidates, after I wised up and realized someone else had saved me the trouble of listing out all the candidate names and numbers, my brilliant husband noted that Jack’s number is 23.
PSALM 23 has been a consistent theme throughout the show. Episode title. On Eko’s stick. Charlie recites it: “The Lord is my Shepherd…”
For me, that blows my mind. I’m pretty sure Jack will end the series as the new Jacob.
Last theory: I think there’s still Team Jacob/ Team Smokie in the other timeline. The island only went under in the 70′s (as intimated by the underwater barracks). If Ilana & Bram headed up an off-island contingent in the other timeline that had nothing to do with Dharma, Widmore & was even outside of Richard’s knowledge. It stands to reason the forces that are in play in one time line are still in play in the other. Which makes me wonder: are Ben & Ethan’s appearance coincidental and innocent? And also reminds me: Desmond disappeared from Oceanic 815. Christian’s body was lost. It’s not going to be as nice an alternate timeline as it seems to be… imo. And in Lost fashion, they’ll wait until we feel all peaceful with this second timeline before the reveal.
SarahSamudre on 21 Feb 2010 at 1:55 am #
Oh, and addendum to my above posting: With Miles & Charlotte ending up on the ceiling, it reminded me that Widmore showed up & told Mrs. Hawking that Daniel HAD TO go on the boat. His emissary told Naomi that those four had been chosen and not to question WHY.
We’ve been operating under the assumption that Jack SHOULD NOT OF made the call to Widmore’s boat.
But my craaaazy theory: Widmore’s boat was sent to the Island to put Jacob’s plan into motion. He was given instructions as to whom to bring. And the purpose was not only to bring those people, but to create a situation to get Jack and a few others to get off the Island (not saying that Widmore knew what the plan was, he was at the very least a pawn in it). Again, we’ve been told that the event shouldn’t have happened. But my theory since season 5 is that Jacob, when he sensed that MIB had found a loop hole, launched a plan to counter it. The revelation of Miles and Charlotte’s names on the ceiling makes me think that the boat was summoned as part of Jacob’s plan. The island is “unfindable” otherwise. The MIB intimates that in their convo on the beach.
So when it arrived, Jack made a call. Jack got them off the Island. Jack led them back. Jack detonated a bomb that created two timelines that Darlton have said “will reconcile somehow”.
Now, here’s another “eeek” point for me- Jacob brings ships, planes and other small craft to the Island. Even the ones that carry enemies. How?
Next week’s episode is called “The Lighthouse”. I will kick my TV if that’s misleading. But considering the scenes for next week show Jack shouting at Hurley in a tower that overlooks the sea… I’m thinking next week is going to be a big answer week and that the lighthouse in question is going to give us huge insight into Jacob’s overarching plans on and off island.
I could be totally wrong but I hope that encourages you as to the pace picking up sooner rather than later!
Pauline on 22 Feb 2010 at 9:19 am #
Wow! Sarah Samudre: King of the Lab!
(Reference: Bones)
Emily on 22 Feb 2010 at 12:26 pm #
After reading what Sarah wrote, I’m moved to possibly say that Jacob is Adam and Ilana is Eve…
Just a thought…
John Cabrera on 22 Feb 2010 at 8:45 pm #
I like that a LOT, Em. In some ways better than any of the other characters… mostly because of the lack of attachment we have to those two. There’s something sad about Adam and Even. I don’t really want to see any of the main characters subject to that. Of course, we don’t really know what “that” is yet… so…
But to be honestAlthough, it’s possible that the writers don’t know yet exactly who Adam and Eve will be. They may have a few choices.
Pauline on 23 Feb 2010 at 12:04 am #
Ilana: As far as Archetypes go and in regard to her relationship to Jacob… she could be the Isis to his Osiris. The sister/wife who is continually finding him after he is killed by his enemy/brother Set and restoring life to him. Ilana seems to have it easier though since Jacob’s ashes are right there in the fire ring and she doesn’t have to run around Egypt trying to find pieces of his hacked up body like Isis.
If that is accurate… I wonder who their child, Horus, would be? The kid had issues from the waist down kinda like Locke… but how could that be? Locke is all dead and smokey now.
A&E… I always fancied Bernard and Rose as Adam and Eve… what is up with those two anyway? They can’t pretend to be Brooke Shields and Christopher Atkins the entire season can they?
Who else… Penelope and Desmond? Faraday and Charlotte? Hurley and Miles?
Mandy on 24 Feb 2010 at 1:46 am #
Ok, I know everyone is waiting for this weeks Lost post but I just re-watched THIS episode and I swear I noticed something. At the beginning of the episode, when we had the POV Smokey, he was floating around outside of Sawyers house. The reflection of the smoke in the window was white!?
DUN, DUN, DUN…
Emily on 24 Feb 2010 at 3:57 pm #
Yes, they might not know yet, but let’s think back to Jacob visiting her in the hospital. It was a seriously touching moment between them. I will need to go back and watch that bit. The storyline of them being Adam and Eve is soo fantastic! But it could be anyone! Can’t wait for your thoughts on this latest episode!