This Lost Post Lies in the Shadow of the Statue
(Damn, that title is gonna index well.)
So… there we have it. A finale foretold in legends.
Man, did the writers deliver us some juice here at the end or what?! For me, this finale topped Season 1, which had been my reigning champion till now.
So many cool images, sickeningly good acting, and a devastating scene there at the end. Oh God, that guttural cry that Sawyer makes after she drops… was… I can’t… I just- *bites quivering upper lip*
*breath*
And it looks like I may be losing my “String Theory pwns The Flying Spaghetti Monster” war with @paulinehess. Truth is, I’m really starting to love this spiritual stuff. It’s fun as hell. How is it that this season started so heady and explainable… but then ended so mystical… and biblical?
And that’s not the only thing I’ve gotta give Pauline props for. She recently messaged me on Facebook trying to explain how Sayid could be Jacob… or more likely be Jacob’s brother. She said that in the Old Testament Jacob’s brother was a very hairy man… and pointed out that Sayid was also rather hairy… she seemed totally fixed on that fact. I think she even mentioned it here in the comments.
Of course, I blew it off in favor of my shiny new “Jac(k) is Jacob” theory… which as you all know was totaled tonight in a head on collision. But even though Sayid is also out of the running for Jacob… I couldn’t help looking at that other dude on the beach and thinking… man that dude is hairy. Of course, later when I saw Bernard I thought he was hairy too.
Anyway, big ups my friend. You are a theorist to be reckoned with.
Okay, so let’s crack some code, shall we? I said I loved the mysticism… but you know me. When it comes to theory, my drink of choice is Scientific Method. So let’s look at a few of the Jacob FACTS we now know:
Jacob is played by Mark Pellegrino. If you watch Dexter, then your reaction may have been similar to mine: double fist pump to the heavens.
Jacob likes to make things. He likes to construct very complex works of art. We see him creating a very intricate tapestry at the beginning of the episode… one that he later gloats about to Ben. So my guess is that he made the statue too. My guess is that he made a lot of what’s on the island. He made it either by hand himself… or by using men as his tools. A creator if you will.
Below is a shot of the statue. It has the head of Taweret, the Hippo Goddess. I’ve seen others say they think it’s Sobek the Crocodile God. The ears and the head basket seem to indicate it’s not.

The body is of a man. Presumably, Jacob’s body. We saw him wearing a sandal on his left foot in the opening of the episode. And as we know, the statue also has sandals. It’s hard to tell whether Jacob has only four left toes like the statue. His foot is moving too fast to make it out. But I’d say, it’s safe to assume that he does.
So… Jacob seems to really like himself.
Jacob has a rival, though. His rival wears black to Jacob’s white. The rival seems to despise mankind; considers man corrupt. Jacob wants to prove him wrong… he must have faith in man. A ray of light to his rival’s dark brooding intentions.
Jacob’s rival seems to be able to take the form of those who have died… and he seems to be currently in the form of Locke. And he’s been looking for a loop hole. One that will allow him to kill Jacob. A “loop hole” that will, in effect, break Jacob’s “compass-like time loop”; dethrone him.
“It only ends once. Anything that comes before that is just progress.”
When we first met Jacob in Season 3, he was old. It was a quick glimpse of an old man trapped in a cabin. An old man that needed “Help” with something. Here he’s young and sprightly. And throughout most of this episode, he doesn’t appear to need much help at all. In fact, he seems pretty chill if you ask me. Like he knows exactly what he needs to do in order to fulfill the events of his loop.
So you might say that the Old Jacob and the Young Jacob are sort of at different places in their lives. Although we saw Old Jacob first… we have to ask ourselves where that desperate old man and this confident young guy fall chronologically in the greater story of Jacob. Who precedes who?
You know, if I was casting this show?… and if I was charged with the task of finding this new younger Jacob based on our older one from season 3?… well, that would be pretty easy. I’d just cast Mark Pellegrino cause he’s awesome, and because we didn’t really get a good glimpse of him in the cabin.
But what if next season we do meet Old Jacob. Well then, as casting director my job might be a bit more difficult. I’d have to find an actor that looks just like Mark Pellegrino. Not an easy task. He’s pretty specific. Blue eyes, blond hair, strong jaw, gap in the front teeth.
Hmmmm. I guess a solid choice might be actor Raymond Barry. I mean, wow, take a look at those two. Perfect.
Sucks though. Unfortunately he was already cast this season as Raymond “Ray” Shepherd… Jack’s grandfather. So I guess that puts him out of the running.

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buffalonygal on 14 May 2009 at 5:36 am #
I have to say I am not really surprised that they brought in a spiritual aspect…the whole idea of free will and fate ties directly into that. Metaphysics is really an umbrella for all these topics, wouldn’t you say?
Also, I initially thought of a whole Christian aspect with the Devil (Locke or whomever is in Locke’s body) as a fallen angel and Jacob as a God-like figure. However, most mythologies have a similar creation myth, which really allows the writers to pull from varying stories of creation. Thus they tell the same tale but in a different way, thereby allowing the writers to take liberties with a variety of mythologies.
One final note, if this is a timeloop, it would seem that the characters would crash again at the end of next season…it is their destiny, right? Either that or it will start with the crash…thoughts?
Catherine on 14 May 2009 at 5:47 am #
I finally saw the Finale… (Nice term in English). i guess I could write down my thoughts better in German but I’ll try it in English… Otherwise your have to look here what we are discussing in German later.
So.. here we go. Sorry, to disappoint you about my “I would believe you anything”-comment here, but your theory that Jack is Jacob was proven wrong this week. But your last part that Ray could be Jacob could still work. Or couldn’t it? I am not sure if Jacob is really dead although Ben stabbed him with the knife and Locke/rival pushed him into the fire. So if not, he could have got off the island and become Ray?! I am so confused right now, because it wouldn’t fit the time right? This happenend in 2005 and Ray is far too old to be Jacob… Or did I get your new theory wrong?
The end of the episode was really great. Wouldn’t have thought that Juliet survived the fall and would be living enough to detonate the Jughead… Really just Wow!
But now I can’t wait for season 6.. And I would like to know if the detonation of the Jughead or killing Jacob leads to the fact that Oceanic 815 doesn’t crash on the island. I think that killing Jacob ended the loop, cause the rival said in the beginning that Jacob is responsible for these people getting to the island. Or did I get it wrong?
btw. was that the Black Rock we saw in the beginning coming to the island? So cool!
I guess I have to rethink a little bit because there was far to much information in these two ours. And I agree with you that this was the best Lost-Finale ever… Never ever was that confused and shocked in the end as this time. Or I can’t remember the other times any more.
Wow, I am getting near the 2000 characters limit. I end with 110 left.
Greg on 14 May 2009 at 5:52 am #
Holy four-toed statue, John! I think you might be on to something there.
We had some more C. S. Lewis influence tonight, and in a much bigger way than the name of the Lamp Post station or poor Charlotte. It’s pretty safe to assume that Locke is acting as Lewis’s Un-man from the book Perelandra.
In Perelandra, Satan borrows the body of a mortal to carry out his evil plan. Lewis calls him the “Un-man”. In the book he tempts the Adam and Eve of the story to lure them away from the side of good.
The best part? The story takes place on an island.
If we’re following this story now (at least in some part) it has interesting implications for our friend Locke. In the story, the character possessed by Satan occasionally takes control of the wheel, but it’s a futile struggle–he’s gone for good. Maybe this is a ‘duh’ moment since, you know, he’s dead, but still another interesting point.
Also… I looked up a translation for what Richard said at the foot of the statue, apparently it’s Latin and roughly translates to “He who will save us.” Scary thought to think what might become of our losties now that pseudo-Locke has killed the good guy.
itzel on 14 May 2009 at 5:57 am #
OMG good catch John! yes it was awesome! and I kinda been out of the loop with this Lost posts marathon (blame work), but OMG then Jacob could truly be Jack’s grandpa!!!! And well, we’ve been talking this whole time about that appearance, why show him? why in such a small role? Yes oh yes, that truly is awesome!
And well, what’s gonna happen next season? Is the Incident this? And so then nothing’s changed? I mean, Dharma will still disappear and The Others will take over? Or is this all gone? and the plane never crashed and the Losties will never “meet”. Of course their lives are intertwined nonetheless, so could next year be focusing on this characters trying to reconnect? but just NOT on the Island?
And Locke!!!! oh no Locke, of course now we know he isn’t really the Locke we all knew and loved, but that frenemy Jacob has. And maybe he too is Smokey (devil)? Like Jacob is God? And it got me thinking with the glyphs interpretation of the guy that rips the hearts out, cause it can totally symbolize this lost of Locke’s soul. He’s not him anymore.
About the old Jacob, young Jacob, what if the guy we met at the cabin was really Jacob’s frenemy? I mean he did ask Locke for help, which he ultimately did. And remember he looked kinda like Locke but with long hair? http://bit.ly/2sx6r I don’t think he was Jacob at all.
Also, my guess is next season we all will be rooting for Jacob, he’s the good guy right? Aaaand, with all this religious stuff, do you think we’re gonna see the whole resurrecting thing? Cause Darlton would not introduce this character just to kill him two hours later.
Amazing episode, totally blew my mind. Now we have to wait almost a year! damn, I really love this show!
Rok on 14 May 2009 at 6:07 am #
I’m pretty convinced the “old Jacob” in the cabin was NEVER Jacob, but his rival. And he knew that he needed Locke to pursue his destiny to die in order so that he could escape and exact his revenge on Jacob.
That’s my take ont he whole thing: Jacob is free will incarnate, while his rival (let’s just assume it’s been the black smoke monster all along, just in different forms) is hell bent on keep things on their pre-ordained tracks. He is the reason the universe “self corrects.” Jacob, ont he other hand, keeps reminding people of the choices they have. The variables to the equation versus the constants his dark rival represents, to put it in Faraday terms.
To date, Desmond seems to be the only one who broke free of his destined path and still survive.
Johnny Hugel on 14 May 2009 at 6:19 am #
(I’m) LOST would be the name of my post.
I guess this is what they call a game changer. At this point I have very little I can rationalize. I can’t see the links between the battle over the island and the forces involved, which apparently have been fighting for it for a long time.
I still have no idea who Ilana’s group represents. Since Jacob recruited her (again), one would think she was on his side. However, she wasn’t in a particular hurry to protect him from his attack by Ben (whom I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s killed early next season). Is her crew there to retaliate against the Rival? If so, why did Jacob warn him they were coming? Also, regarding old Jacob, perhaps that’s just another body that the Rival inhabited? Especially if Ilana knew that someone else had been using the cabin (presumably the Rival as Christian).
Unrelated, but while watching the opening scene I was struck by how neither character had much of an accent. Does that provide any clues to where/when they are from and or who they are?
Mike on 14 May 2009 at 6:24 am #
I’m not going to lie, as far as finales go this was not my favorite. Not sure why though, I think in my head I was expecting it to end after the incident not at the start of it. I’m guessing Miles was right though, that what Jack was trying to do WAS the incident, and Juliette’s detonation of the bomb will just put all the people who don’t belong in 1977, back in 2007. Is that what Jacob meant by, “They’re coming.” Or was he referring to something else.
As far as Jacob is concerned, I am hoping that he is somehow still a part of the show next season. I would be pretty annoyed if after three years of talking about this guy, this episode is all we get of him. Plus Mark Pellegrino is awesome. It was interesting to see how he nudged everyone on their path, and brought Locke back after he fell.
Jacob and the Other guy: Not sure why this guy couldn’t kill Jacob, or how becoming Locke and using Ben to do it, was a “loophole”. I will say that I think this guy is Smokey. I always just assumed that smokey and Jacob were pals. But we know Smokey scanned Locke way back when and has all his memories, and we know it can take human form, and it appeared as Alex and specifically told Ben to follow John Locke and do what he says. Why would Smokey be on board with Locke and not everyone else in power (Richard, Jacob) if he wasn’t this other guy on the beach with Jacob. 100 holes can be punched in this but right now that’s what I’m thinking.
On top of that. Maybe Jacob was never in the cabin. Maybe it was always the other guy. He apparently needed Lockes help and was trapped in the cabin by the ash… and then the ash was broken and he’s suddenly locke. I know Smokey’s been floating around for a while, so I’m prob wrong, but it’s still fun to put out there.
Have to watch again to make a final opinion, either way i feel like it’s gonna be back to season one basics for next year. And the last time you saw Juliette she was alive. So don’t count her out yet.
caass19 on 14 May 2009 at 6:36 am #
omg so this finale blew my mind..actually it was so hard to keep track of everything i had a headache by the end! but it was wortth it! omg juliet:(! i was freaking out ..but really its totally unrealistic that she was alive enough to smash the H-bomb ..come on man! she had tons of metal flying at her plus the impact alone would’ve done it…but really, am i arguing the realistic-ness of anything in a show like LOST?
i dont know..but regarding this whole Old Jacob-Young Jacob thing..maybe the Old jacob we saw was just christiansheppard in the chair because remember he said he can speak for jacob? so thats probably what he was doing in season 3…because Jacob seems to be on eo fthose never aging Richard-ypes lol..he looked exactly the same when Kate was a child and in the statue in 2007.
Though this whole “talking for Jacob” thing is now shot to hell cuz we know that re-born Christian and re-born Locke are prob one in the same..Jacob’s enemy…thats a whole other weirdness that im sure will be explored in season 6
and let me end this by saying: CHARLIE’s DS ring!!! SO ECSTATIC that it was found..i’ve been waiting for this since claire left it behind!
Johnny Hugel on 14 May 2009 at 7:58 am #
Another thought struck me: I’m guessing “the incident” was not prevented, or became what happened last night. Otherwise they wouldn’t have gone to the trouble of showing Chang’s arm get damaged, correct? So most of Dharma lives and Radzinsky gets banished to the Swan, once it’s built. Right? Does he go a little (more) nuts? Why is he so secretive with Kelvin?
Tony B. on 14 May 2009 at 8:01 am #
There is also the possibility that Jacob’s rival was the one in the cabin when Ben and Locke visited it in Season 3. Ilana, when exiting the cabin in last night’s episode, says “He’s not there. Someone else has been using it.” Which is why they burned the cabin. I would guess that since Jacob’s rival looks a little older, it was probably him asking for help from Locke initially.
Pauline on 14 May 2009 at 8:29 am #
Aw shucks… go on… I mean stop!
Man! I so want the Jacob flashback eps to come as soon as next season starts. Yeah… we probably won’t get that but can you imagine? But really, I’m confused by this whole Jacob thing. Mainly because during Rebecca’s pregnancy with twins Jacob and Esau whenever she would pass a house of Torah study, Jacob would struggle to come out and whenever she would pass a house of idolatry, Esau would try to come out. So why is it that Jacob seems to into idolatry?
I’m going to be reading about Jacob and Esau trying to figure this thing out all summer. Stupid Lost. But something I want to look into is the fact that Jacob had 13 children… only one of which is a daughter. I instantly thought of Kate. And now I’m wondering if the Losties or the ones who have survived thus far could be his symbolic children.
One last culture thing… My friend who is an archaeologist and an expert in all that Roman & Greek stuff posted this comment last night:
“The eclecticism of LOST: Mycenaean megaron under Egyptian statue of Sobek, wearing Roman sandals. I think I can get an article out of this!”
I googled: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaron
Anyway enough of that stuff… They killed off my Juliet! She was one of my favorites. Beloved indeed. Damn. I totally cried. And that look that she shared with Sawyer there after Jack threw the bomb? And the fact that she destroyed the bomb. damn.
Oh… and what Miles said about maybe the bomb IS the disaster? Hmmmmm. Wonder how/if it effects the stabbing/burning of Jacob?
Hey J ~ Love the wrap up to your blog! Nice surprise resurrection there! I’m gonna miss these blogs over the summer. Thanks for keeping us all entertained and educated this season.
Warren on 14 May 2009 at 8:50 am #
Yeah, last nights episode was great, and I have another theory about Jacob.
What if Jacob in the cabin was never Jacob at all?
I think the only time we went to the cabin to see Jacob was when Ben took us…or Locke. Ben admits, he’s never seen or talked to Jacob. He only got notes from Richard. When Richard brought them to the foot, he said “This is where he lives.”
What if the person in the cabin was the anti-Jacob…the guy from the beach? The ash around the cabin was obviously there to keep something in. Those people were obviously shocked when there was a breach in the ash.
What if Jacob kept Anti-Jacob locked up there? Maybe Jacob sent Ben (through Richard) to the cabin to mess with Anti-Jacob.
Stranger things have happened.
Annika on 14 May 2009 at 8:53 am #
Is Raymond Barry really out of the running? …
Once again an awesome seaon finale of “Lost” and even though I’m happy to know that the show has an ending, I’m just thrilled to know that there is another season which only can be awesome, great, perfect…
I don’t know where my head is right now, this finale was too much for it and I guess I have to rewatch it a couple of times to get every detail.
First thing that came into my mind this episode was that Jacobs rival and the smoke monster are one and the same. Smokey himself could transform into dead persons and Jacobs rival also can, as we saw at the end. This would also explain why the smoke monster told Ben to follow Locke whatever happend and why no one ever really controlled this thing…
The other thing I’m asking myself – Alana said that the cabin has been used by someone for a long time. So was it really (old) Jacob who begged for help? Is Christian Shephard really talking on Jacobs behalf? I’m not so sure anymore.
Particle Noun on 14 May 2009 at 9:46 am #
Nice article, but I feel it’s pretty clear that they person we saw in the cabin was not Old Jacob, but Jacob’s enemy, which is why he asked Locke for help, and why there is a circle of ash around the cabin. Because he was meant to be trapped in there, but found a way to be released.
That would mean that ‘zombie’ Shepard has most likely been a manifestation of the Adversary also!
Vanessa N. on 14 May 2009 at 10:42 am #
Brilliant episode! I agree that I think this is probably the best episode for me. I completely agree about how heart-wrenching that Sawyer-Juliet scene was.
Here are my thoughts on Jacob after seeing this episode: this is the FIRST time we’ve ever seen Jacob. Ben, not Richard, was the one to take Locke to the cabin. In fact, when Locke said maybe he’d ask Richard to take him to Jacob, Ben told him that Richard didn’t talk to or know where Jacob was. Ben admits in this episode that he has never met or talked to Jacob. Jacob’s people (the “in the shadow of the statue” peeps) mention something about someone getting out of the cabin and seem concerned. Why would they be concerned of their leader Jacob, who has met with some of them in the outside world, leaving the cabin?
I believe that the apparition in the cabin that took the form of the old man (perhaps even Locke’s form, which would explain the infamous freeze-frame photo) is not Jacob but rather his nemesis that we met on the beach. If he was only able to take on some other form in the cabin, that would explain why he needs Locke’s body (and maybe Christian’s too?) to get around and do the things he wants to do (like convincing Ben to kill Jacob since he can’t do it himself). It all does seem very biblical/mythological when you bring in the “good” supernatural being vs. “bad” supernatural being thing.
Alicia Gray on 14 May 2009 at 10:45 am #
I really did appreciate the finale, I really did, I just found it not up to snuff with the past ones. There was too much waiting around. With the past it was a constant keep you on your toes fest! I found it too be overly predictable. We knew it was going to blow up either from thinking it had to happen when Jack told us his plan, or when we realize the statue was gone because the island blew up. And it probably didn’t help reading Variety weeks ago/or maybe it was online that Elizabeth Mitchell was cast on a new show. That’s the exact same thing they said about Cynthia Watros (Libby). She was cast on a new show, and look how that turned out. Only real interesting surprise to me was the fact that Locke was indeed dead. I did like that. And the confrontation in the statue with Jacob. By the way, so love your input and outlook on what and who Jacob is.
Thanks for another great blog.
John Cabrera on 14 May 2009 at 10:54 am #
Hey guys, I’m gonna throw in my two cents really quick. I’ve read all of these now.
I agree with most of you that it’s very likely that this “Samuel” character that may have been trapped in the cabin. Here are some things to remember though:
Christian has been wandering the island as an omniscient force for much longer than the ash ring was broken.
Illana was going to the cabin to find Jacob. And yet when they got there they seemed totally aware of the ash ring. In fact were alarmed to see that it had been broken. Were they actually there to see Jacob… or the Other guy. If they were there to see the Other Guy then who would have been living in the cabin since? And if they were there to see Jacob, why would they not have wondered why an ash ring surrounded the cabin?
If Samuel is the one in the real world manipulating everyone back to the Island… well… why take the form of Jacob? No one knows him anyway. I don’t think it’s likely it him. Remember, Samuel said to him that he was the one who brought the Black Rock. Jacob seems to be the one who brings everyone he wants to the Island.
Christian, asked Locke to say hello to his son for him. Seems an odd thing to ask if your actually not Christian.
Also, two things to remember from our brief encounter with Grandpa. a.) He says someday he’ll escape the retirement home and no one will ever find him. b.) He yearns for adventure again.
And I found his encounter with Jack to be the strangest. Am I wrong in saying that it didn’t really move Jack closer to his destiny, like it did the others? Or am I forgetting something about those candy bars. I was most fascinated by the very strange look from Jack. A kind of… “do I know you?”
I’ll have more in a while. Thanks for the enthusiasm, guys. Keep it coming!
hugel on 14 May 2009 at 11:42 am #
I think most people think that Jacob was trapped in the cabin by the ash. Ilana expected this, so they were surprised when it was broken, but not as surprised to find Jacob was not inside. “Samuel” could have been walking around as Christian, or any of the other strange apparitions. It seems like Jacob left, left a calling card for anyone looking for him, and then Samuel started using it. Is there something biblical about that?
Christian’s line may have been odd, but then again he was keeping up the appearance of Christian so perhaps it was part of the plan. “Samuel” as Locke asked about visiting the cabin, which (if you believe the above) he already knew was empty. Perhaps that was all part of his plan, especially with the lying and manipulating he was doing between Richard and Ben.
Paul Gude on 14 May 2009 at 12:10 pm #
Just a quick note. As I’ve said many times, I really love your insights.
The conversation between Jacob and the Adversary made me think of two things.
On one hand, you have the idea of Jacob as God and the Adversary as Satan, in which case their meeting resembles the friendly little chat they have in the book of Job:
———
7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” 8 And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” 9 Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? 10 Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” 12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
————-
However, I’d be remiss if not to mention the idea of Jacob wrestling with the angel:
————-
24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob’s thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
————
So, Jacob wrestled with a supernatural being, and it bested him by cheating.
Just sayin’…
Sheema on 14 May 2009 at 12:21 pm #
As always, I really love your Lost posts because you always catch things I totally missed and it helps me think about the episode in a different way. I’m thinking that Jack’s grandpa is Jacob!
Pauline on 14 May 2009 at 12:29 pm #
Okay… alright… I had emailed this to John but after a little nudge I’m gonna throw it out before it’s time…
Okay so. I have a theory. It is totally based on nothing other than I have a funny feeling. I need to do more reading to see if I can prove this stuff… but here is my theory. (and I’m going to call this Adversary Esau because it is easier for me to keep straight this way…)
Somehow… long ago… as in the story of Jacob and Esau, when at the urging of his mother jacob tricked his father into giving him Esau’s blessing and later tricked Easu into handing over rights as first born son… I think that this would translate in the world of Lost into an actual BODY SWITCH. And who we know as Jacob is actually the soul of Esau and who we haven’t really seen but imprisoned in the Cabin and now inhabiting the body of John Locke is the soul of Jacob trying to get his original place in the world back. As leader of the chosen people (read Others). So the people with the body of Locke who called themselves the good guys, would have been working with Jake in Esau’s body. Not Esau as Jake. Confusing, no?
I just feel like that Jacob was supposed to be God’s favorite but why would God’s favorite imprison someone in a cabin for years and years and sort of gloat over his brother not being able to kill him. Because maybe the body switch DID happen and maybe Jacob didn’t like being the hunter guy… and worse his brother Esau (in Jacob’s body) was doing bad things? Look how he treated Ben with the manipulation and ignoring him & possibly setting up these Dharma/Others wars?
I don’t know… I have a tendency to be able to talk myself out of this one. But this really has all the trappings of one of those fairy tales where there is a switcheroo… even the Buffy/Faith switcheroo in BtVS. Or even something from a mythological story?
I need to go plant trees now.
Paul Gude on 14 May 2009 at 12:31 pm #
Oh, rather it TRIED to best him with cheating, but Jacob still prevailed, not letting go even with his leg out of joint.
Sorry, was running out of room and accidentally altered the meaning.
Kelly Jo on 14 May 2009 at 2:16 pm #
I just needed to add: OMG. That was THE best finale EVER! I’m still reeling!
I don’t usually post, but I have a question: I’m wondering if I missed something… In all the flashbacks last night, there was Jacob, in very defining moments for the main characters… Except Juliette… Why wasn’t Jacob in the Juliette flashback?
I think you guys are all fab with your theories! Thanks for helping the rest of us keep up!!!
Paul Gude on 14 May 2009 at 2:37 pm #
One other question. Does anyone else see the rivalry between Jacob and the Adversary mirrored in the conversations between Ben and Charles?
There’s a lot of talk about following rules, etc.
Maybe Ben was working for Jacob and Charles started working for the Adversary? Or, maybe their rivalry is just a smaller version of the bigger game?
Paul Gude on 14 May 2009 at 2:59 pm #
Oh, and Pauline, while I’m not completely sold on your theory it is interesting that at his mother’s prompting smooth-skinned Jacob pretended to be hairy Esau by covering his arms and neck with goat skins. A trick of perception, as you know, something the Adversary is quite fond of performing. So, who knows?
A co-worker and I were discussing the fact that while Jacob does seem to be the “good” guy, it’s not necessarily the case. The biblical Jacob was a tricky guy, a rascal and manipulator. He didn’t just trick Esau out of his birthright he got him to *sell* his birthright for some food. I wonder if this is perhaps a nod to the Adversary being offered food and curtly replying that he had already eaten?
Granted they can’t be God, Satan, Jacob, an Angel, and Esau at the same time. I’m not saying these are the actual biblical figures, but the name Jacob most likely didn’t get pulled out of thin air, so it can inform us. Still, we have many other cultures and stories represented, and I don’t think this is going to be cut and dry.
Paul Gude on 14 May 2009 at 3:10 pm #
Oh, and one final note.
The idea that’s been floating around that Jacob is Jack Shephard’s grandfather.
Esau was a hunter, while Jacob was a shepherd.
Granted, as a co-worker pointed out, this holds true for a ton of folks in the Bible.
Again, not saying it’s the man himself, just saying there may be clues there.
John Cabrera on 14 May 2009 at 3:47 pm #
Can’t wait to dive into this discussion! Still deep in work.
Pauline on 14 May 2009 at 5:42 pm #
Yeah… Paul (nice name by the way) When I first wrote my theory… I also wondered if Jacob (in the adversary’s body) could be the bad guy. I wondered if maybe Jacob saw the power that came with being his original self and wanted to try to get it back. I don’t understand why he would be God’s favorite after being so scheming and selfish to take something that wasn’t rightfully his.
And for sure I don’t think this is all biblical. That is why I won’t buy into the idea of either of them being god or satan or an angel. I think it is easy to make parallels to the adversarial tribes of Jacob and Esau and think that the story is about that… but I think it is more. It could be a commentary on the struggle between the the jews, pagans and christians. We do seem to have three factions on the island right? The Others, the Dharma Initiative and the Losties. I’m not saying that this is THE story line… but could be just broad strokes that paint the background for all the fictional details.
The finale added to the ton of egyptian imagery with nods to the Romans and Mycenaeans… so I’m curious what stories can be found there regarding fights between good and evil, dark and light. Though… the pagan traditions are more about the balance between light and dark. The idea that without a Jacob… we couldn’t have an “adversary.”
Oh… and when the whole Shepherd family name came up… I thought to myself… “who WASN’T a Shepherd in the bible? But boy are those 2007 Others sure sheep!
John Cabrera on 14 May 2009 at 7:19 pm #
Okay, I’m all caught up, whew!
Okay, so some more thoughts:
Buffalonygal, yes, you’re right. Many mythologies are involved. And actually, since this Jacob character seems to have been around since the beginning of human history, he seems to have been an influencing factor in every culture’s development. He seems to like to give people the tools to shape their own destiny. But not tell them exactly what to do with those tools… he leaves that up to them. Well that goes for societies as well. If he’s been at this game for a long time, then he likes to give societies a nudge and see what they create. This sort of hodge podge of styles that he lives in (statues of Taweret, with roman sandals, and a male body) seems to be his way of honoring these great achievements of man. Kind of a, Godly way of hanging the crayon drawing on the fridge with the magnet. “Aww, look at what my kid made”
I’ll have more on this in a future post. But I have a very strong feeling I know who Jacob and this Adversary are. Or who the writers are drawing on.
JR Tschopp , you there? I think you may know where I’m going with this.
And as for the plane crashing. I would be pretty surprised if that doesn’t happen at some point in the season. I’m still holding firmly to the belief that the plane on the bottom of the ocean is connected to a real crash.
leah on 14 May 2009 at 7:23 pm #
I totally buy the whole Jacob is Jacks grandfather. Christian, Jacks dead father, has been seen on the island as well as Claire Jacks half sister. Very interesting.
Can’t freaking wait for Feb. 2010!
Ps did cry when Julia fell.
Mike on 14 May 2009 at 7:35 pm #
Not really up on my Bible, but wasn’t the whole rift between God and the Devil about the Devil not wanting to worship a Man (Jesus). I’m not saying Jacob and his adversary are actually God and the Devil, but Jacob seems to have faith in man, where as the adversary thinks us corrupt. So there could be something to that. Didn’t Bible Jacob also have a son named Ben? Maybe their relationship on the island could be mirroring their relationship in the Bible. There is a high probability I’ve got my facts wrong on this so I’ll drop it.
I definitely think Iliana was looking for Jacob at the cabin. At some point Jacob must have resided there, or at least gave that illusion to protect his real whereabouts.
Not sure what Christian Shepherd’s deal is. On one hand he told Sun and Frank to wait in Dharmaville for John Locke. So you could easily lean towards him not working for Jacob. Or perhaps, even Christian was duped by fake locke. And as far as the “say hello to my son”, well fake locke has a brainful of real lockes memories, so this too could be true of Christian.
It seems odd that fake locke wouldnt remember jacob lived in the statue, when Jacob told him in the beginning that’s where he’d be. Was he just playing the part of Locke, or did he really not know. Same goes for his conversation about the Monster with Ben. If he is the Monster, shouldn’t he know what he did? How much of it was him playing the part of locke, or actually not knowing. Why ask about the cabin?
The fact the quarantine door was still at their camp would suggest that what they were doing in 1977 changed nothing. It was the incident as it always was. otherwise the door couldn’t be there in 2007 because for them 1977 already happened. Richard has memories of it.
I too was glad to see Charlie’s ring. Were they reminding us he died for a purpose, and it would belittle his sacrifice to erase it, or did they just want a cool match cut to Sun’s wedding ring? I think the former.
John Cabrera on 14 May 2009 at 7:41 pm #
Catherine, yep, that’s right. That’s what I was getting at with the picture of the Grandpa and Mark Pellegrino. I think it’s possible that they’re the same. And actually, this takes place in 2007. But by now you know that time in this story is not being told linearly. The Jacob character appears in a variety of different times. If he is still alive after being thrown into the fire… who knows where (or WHEN) he is now???
Greg, dude, just want to thank you for adding the translation to the comments. Very helpful in figuring all of this out.
I just want to talk a little bit about the moment with Juliette at the end. I know some of you said it was lame that she survived, and impossible given the circumstances. Others said that this indeed fulfilled the loop, and actually allowed the Swan to be built. And Kelly Jo, you wondered why hers was the only flashback sans Jacob. Well here’s a possibility:
Jacob doesn’t come to Juliette in her flashback, because her “moment with Jacob” is yet to come in the episode.
The events that happen on this Island have been looping continuously. The drill will always hit the pocket. Chang’s arm will always be crushed. Jack will always make it there with the bomb. And the bomb will always hit the bottom without detonating. But something different happened this time. A woman who should never have survived a fall of that kind… survived…. just like Locke who should never have survived a fall of his kind… also survived. I think there’s a connection.
It’s interesting to note that after Jacob is killed, we cut to the scene with Juliette. We just witnessed an event that broke a hole in “The Loop”… so is it crazy to imagine that this moment with her… alive… is also a one of a kind “Loop Hole”.
John Cabrera on 14 May 2009 at 7:47 pm #
Oh and Alicia, I’m not sure sure the statue was blown up by the bomb. That question at the end may have been meant to throw us off.
When the Losties were traveling in time, they blipped to a date when the statue was standing (it was a major moment for them)…. the next time they blipped, they were in 1977 and the statue they had just seen through the trees was no longer visible.
kelly Jo on 15 May 2009 at 4:29 am #
John,
Thank you for starting my friday off with a…
“OOOOoooohhhhhhhhhhh……. interesting!!!!” LOVE IT!
eringoblog on 15 May 2009 at 5:09 am #
“But I have a very strong feeling I know who Jacob and this Adversary are. Or who the writers are drawing on.”
Oh, come on now…it’s not fair to tease us like that!
Sandy on 15 May 2009 at 1:41 pm #
You guys are awesome, as was the ep. It is interesting that the first scenes with Jacob were played without accents/had modern affectations. I read a sci fi/fantasy book about 2 immortals who kept up a hand to hand battle for eons – not reincarnated, as they retained all the past memories – but thrown forward in time every few hundred years. Battled each other, finally ended their exhausing loop when they each sacrificed themselves to something greater — and they were happliy delivered out of the eons of time loopage.
Never liked Juliette (the plastic surgery is too distracting for me) AND I did not believe the relationship between those two – but man, they did a great job in that scene. So the bomb explodes and we see white – like the time flashes- and we see Juliette’s eye, correct? Maybe she is stuck in the loop now?
SarahSamudre on 15 May 2009 at 4:03 pm #
Okay. So I’m back with more visual clues.
Three visual cues that hooked me into the show in season 1 had to do with black versus white.
1) Locke on the Beach with Walt. He holds up two backgammon pieces, one white, one black and says those two colors slowly, with emphasis. The camera holds on those two pieces, intro’ing us to Locke as a mystic of sorts, but also to a theme of an “eternal battle”, as Locke introduces the game to Walt.
2) The caves. Adam and Eve. Around Eve’s neck was a leather pouch, containing two marbles, one black, one white.
3) Claire’s first nightmare. Locke appears over her cradle and condemns her for her decisions about Aaron, and when he looks up at her, one eye is all black, one is all white.
So we now know, above all other things, this show revolves around an ancient battle between the Island and Jacob, one black, one white, and that the Lost writers have foreshadowed Locke’s involvement between those two since season 1. The three black and white references only appear that blatantly (and with Locke) in the beginning of season 1. That AMAZES me.
And as you pointed out weeks ago, when we first suspected Locke was not Locke, he appeared on the beach shrouded in … BLACK!
And I think the Island has been trying to manipulate Locke since season 1 when the smoke monster tried to pull him into the tunnel. And that was NOT Jacob in the Cabin. A) Ben had never been around Jacob. Everything that we saw about Jacob tonight is incongruent with an invisible guy in a chair who needs help. B) Jacob can go off Island whenever he wants to. Why would he need Locke to help him? Obviously, the Island has been playing Locke for a while, especially since it was Christian (Island) who told Locke he had to die.
*Idea: Did Jacob have Nadia die to get Sayid to come back to the Island to detonate the bomb? Did Jacob, in 2005, have some idea that the Island had corrupted Locke and was working out a backup plan?
John Cabrera on 15 May 2009 at 7:02 pm #
SarahSamudre, amazing observation with the visual clues. AMAZING!!!!! This is a talented writing team!
We’ve seen the cabin 4 times:
1.) Ben took Locke there and Locke saw what can only be described as an old ghost “begging for help”… help was not given.
2.) Hurley looks in to see someone in a chair. Then an eye (strongly resembling Terry O’Quinn’s), looks out at him. Later when Locke finds Hurley, we learn Locke wasn’t coming from the cabin… in fact he needs Hurley to help him find it again.
3.) Locke goes to the cabin one last time and finds Christian there (the walking dead since Season 1)… Christian tells him he’s not Jacob, but he can speak for him… tells him to move the island… and by turning that wheel the plan is set in motion.
4.) Illana and crew go to the Cabin looking for Jacob (carrying Precious Cargo). But they find a.) oh my god! the ash has been broken… and b.) he hasn’t been in the cabin for a while. Someone else has been living there. That means a.) they didn’t expect the ash to be broken… and b.) they expected Jacob to be inside that ring of ash… a ring, I should remind you, that was not broken (or at least not shown broken) during cabin encounter number 1.
And the way I see it, a moan for help is a moan for help… at least compared to opposite techniques we’ve now seen used by Anti-Jacob since.
It’s entirely possible that the manipulation of Locke (the plan to destroy Jacob in 2007) began at cabin encounter number 3… not at at number 1… and that in number 2 the cabin we saw was actually occupied by BOTH Jacob and Anti-Jacob. In fact, it’s possible that we’ll see that scene again… but from the inside of the cabin, looking out at Hurley. It disappeared just after that… are we totally sure Hurley wasn’t seeing something from another Time and Space?
Jacob asked Illana for help. She agreed by taking a dead body to that cabin in the hopes of finding Jacob there.
So… are you positive we never saw Jacob in that cabin?
ClaireSalcedo on 15 May 2009 at 10:56 pm #
There are some great theories going on here!
Sarah-I think you’re spot on with the idea that Jacob was working out a back-up plan. Jacob didn’t seem surprised to see Locke, or even Ben, at all. He even knew immediately that Locke wasn’t really Locke-and knew that the moment for the Loophole had arrived.
I think that idea goes well with what you said John, about Juliet-there is a simultaneous Loophole occurring, which is what will allow the WAR next season.
I had a couple of random questions/thoughts. You should excuse their randomness.
JULIET. AACKH!
What is Richard’s relationship to Jacob? There is something close there-Illana knows to look for him. Is he a pirate? And why did Jacob make him ageless? A favor? A need? So many of the comments fake-Locke made to Richard seem a little snide now.
I think someone already mentioned how similar some of the things Jacob and the man said were to what Ben and Widmore said-referring to “the rules.” What is the hierarchy of rules that governs even THEM, that can only be exploited through a loophole that took hundreds of years to create? (Assuming that was the Blackrock ship we saw.)
There are a lot of biblical brothers. Cain and Abel came to my mind, Isaac and Ishmael, along with Jacob and Esau.
And when it comes to the time-space-scale of the Island, I can’t help thinking about the fact that Darlton recommended reading the Chronicles of Narnia (all seven books?). The Magician’s Nephew is the beginning book, in which Narnia forms. Narnia is originally reached (in its unformed state) through the “Wood between the Worlds,” a wood in which pools of water actually lead to various worlds, places, times-if one is wearing the appropriate ring. In the last book, The Last Battle, the original characters from the first books try to find the rings so they can return to Narnia to try and save it from war. Thousands of years have passed in the meantime in Narnia. I think CoN is foreshadowing the time/space of the war next season.
who’s john cabrera? » Lost Civilization of Viracocha on 16 May 2009 at 1:12 am #
[...] And if you’re looking for my Post-Finale entry (whew almost used the word “post” twice in the sentence) click here. [...]
evie on 16 May 2009 at 9:52 am #
John, It’s interesting that you bring up Ray Barry as Jack’s Grandfather! You implying that Jacob IS Jack’s Grandfather? Right!? That totally plays into my theory!!!
If Jacob is Aaron from the future, then in the Bible, Jacob is the great-great-grandfather of Aaron. So it’s possible that Jacob is Christian’s grandfather, Jack’s great grandfather…
John Cabrera on 17 May 2009 at 1:40 am #
Evie, yeah, that’s exactly what I was implying. Have you had a chance to listen to my subsequent podcast? In it, I’m a little more blatant with my Jacob is Grandpa theory.
Your theory certainly is possible… that would mean that Jacob isn’t Ray Shepherd (as I’m proposing), but rather Ray Shepherd’s father. I don’t know… it could be.
John Cabrera on 17 May 2009 at 2:33 am #
Claire, you may be totally right about CoN. But also remember, writers like to give you tools to keep you from getting confused, to get you excited about their particular brand of storytelling, their plot structures, themes of choice… but no mystery writer wants to risk you discovering his or her brilliant surprise… or any of the newness of what they’re doing. They might drop subtle hints when they’re feeling brave… but they want those hints to only be discovered after the surprise has been reveal. Like the black white duality Sarah pointed out from the first season. They want you to be like, “Whoa! That was right under our noses all along!” So sometimes they use these “helpful tool” as a way to keep audiences focused in safe places. Just another way to look at it.
Liz on 17 May 2009 at 11:45 am #
Interesting take on the statue — that it’s the head of Taweret in Jacob’s body. I thought it was straight up Taweret, since she is the goddess of fertility, and the women on the island have difficulties giving birth on the island in the present. Perhaps because the statue doesn’t exist then? It seems as though people had no problem having children when it was still around. Just another theory.
SarahSamudre on 19 May 2009 at 6:42 pm #
Alright, so I don’t know if there is a moratorium on commenting now that the season is wrapped, but I’ll risk it anyway because my internet connection was generally crap in the UK, so I didn’t want to risk typing stuff up and losing it. Plus, I didn’t know how to counter the ash ring thing.
All credit goes to my sister Claire for pointing this out, but maybe the white ash ring is not to keep Jacob IN, but to keep the smoke monster out. Not the Island’s hosts (ie Christian and houseguest Claire) but specifically the Smoke Monster. The white ash may not be ash, but white sand. Like the kind found at the beach where Jacob lives. The beach where the Smoke Monster can’t show up on. And if the Island has been using the cabin to manipulate Locke, once it had achieved its goal and gotten Locke to leave the Island, then it would have no need for the Cabin, would dash the line and let the Smoke Monster trash the place, and it did look TRASHED.
Think about it: the ring of ash(or sand) didn’t keep Jacob in one place. Obviously, because we see him off Island throughout multiple decades. Maybe, it’s the only place he could meet with people IN the Island where the Smoke Monster couldn’t get to him, so that only Richard knows where Jacob truly resides (because human leaders can get so pesky!)
So I still think we haven’t seen Jacob in the cabin. But knowing that you may not agree with me, I leave you with this theory:
I think Jacob may have never appeared to Ben because, like the ash ring is a precaution, I think distancing himself from Ben was another precaution. I don’t think Jacob initially healed Ben.
I think Ben owes his life to the Island. Jacob heals Locke in the 90′s and it didn’t take his innocence. Also, Smokie lives in the Temple. Smokie seems to be in league with, if not the incarnation, of the Island.
My big problem with this theory is WHY would Richard take Ben to anyone BUT Jacob?
Anyway, Theory Cocktail out!
Karla on 27 May 2009 at 9:33 am #
Makes you wonder what side Eloise is on.. she was determined to get the Oceanic 6 back to the island and as she stated to Jack that it had to be “as close to the first time they crashed on the island”. Maybe because she was helping evil guy (in black) get Locke’s dead body back to the island for him to finish “his loophole”.
Also supporting this theory is how Faraday told Jack “you’re not supposed to be here, she was wrong”. Assuming that Faraday is on the ‘good side’ and Eloise is on the bad. Why would he say she was wrong if she wasn’t up to something bad?
My next wonderish thought, is how the statue falls. Maybe this will happen as a result to this “incident” ?
Definitely confused as heck about the time travel and I am sure that even at the very end of Lost (season 6) I still will be, just as I was after watching J.J Abrams’s new Star Trek.. I just can’t wrap my head around this time travel stuff – but I do love it!