Viv, the film said 70% were there on murder or rape charges. Out of 1500 prisoners, that leaves 450 that are there on lesser crimes like drug possession and theft… that’s a lot of people. I’m not sure if it’s because of how heavily the murderers outweigh the druggies… or because they’re the more dangerous type of inmate, but the film seems to suggest that Byron sets them up as the ruling class at the prison.

Lisa, thank you for the fascinating insight into this. Really. “Mayabang” is such an interesting term/concept… I’d never heard that before, but yes, that’s exactly what I’m seeing in these videos. But it feels like this guy is addicted to being “mayabang”… this is like his little crafts project and the inmates are his Popsicle sticks (me and my grandpa used to make Popsicle stick houses when I was really little).

And of course that brings up the question…. do these prisoners deserve to indulge in a sense of mayabang over other prisons of the world?

I guess my biggest problem is the YouTubeing of it all… and a guy feeling entitled to treating human beings like toys.

Caryl, I don’t know what it’s like to have a love one hurt or killed by a criminal. I’m sure, based on my personality, I would have plenty of fantasies about how I’d want that person to suffer. Would it be right for me to take pleasure in those fantasies or use them to cope… I’m not sure. But I understand where you’re coming from, I really do. And I think that’s why I can’t really link the two… because, this warden isn’t entitled to anything more than maintaining/managing/running a prison facility. His job isn’t to be the hand of judgment for all of those who’s lives have been damaged by criminals.

But who knows, maybe instilling “mayabang” is his brilliant plan for running the place efficiently.

I am curious as to how many people and authorities have seen the documentary, cause i think the reason why Byron has become so “ego hungry” and wanting to be like “god and savior” is mainly cause he is getting so much attention out of it. the curious thing would be if he would stop forcing the dances if people just stop watching and not giving the attention he expects?

Katelynne – i totally agree about the whole tattoo thing.. ugghh i couldnt believe he was saying only the ones who have killed “deserved” to carry Byron’s name.. thats just sick!

This is why I may have come across completely insensitive… having been a victim of horrendous crimes, up against criminal minds and their lack of remorse and regard for others’ lives, knowing other innocents (family and friends) who have been victims too (one murdered), it’s hard for me to feel a whole lot of sympathy for those prisoners. As sad as it is to admit, a part of me doesn’t care if they’re mistreated, humiliated or controlled by a corrupt egomaniac.

Again, for me, the corruption is linked only to the prisoners and hard to view separately. But, I’m trying to stay objective and separate the issues, as I’m starting to come around.

“…the warden and his sister seem to be using it for their own amusement and entertainment. Perhaps they didn’t start out that way but it’s certainly how it comes across….Even if they started out with good intentions, it seems to have progressed way beyond that now.”

But I think it’s important to point out that it’s not just Byron and his sister who are amused by this. I can tell you right now that a lot of those prisoners like the popularity and the attention they are getting, whether they themselves like the dancing or not. I can’t speak for everyone – and other Filipinos may resent me for saying this – but Filipinos tend to take pride in ANY attention they may be getting. Infamy is just as powerful as regular fame in the Philippines.

There are certainly worse things that a country can be known for. Yes, there may be a human rights issue here that should be looked into – and definitely more to the story than we get to see. But the Philippines is also a country of great poverty and social divide, major political corruption, pollution, crime…the list goes on. I just wish that there was more awareness – within the country and internationally – of these problems that take place outside the prison.

One more thing…even the poorest of the poor in the Philippines have a good dose of pride. There’s a stereotype of Filipinos that I hold against them, and that is that a lot of us are “mayabang” which basically means thinking that we are “above the rest”. Comparing the dancing to a military discipline was just the warden and his sister being “mayabang”.

I’m not even sure if I made a point here, and I’m not trying to put down my ethnicity. While born and raised in the US, I’m as Filipino as they come. And I have to admit that I myself am amused by the viralness of the videos. I just wanted my voice to be heard.

Haha. Indeed, my good man. “Lots” would be my reply, if I had to guess.

I knew a guy who washed out of Ranger school once, or maybe it was the Special Forces selection course or something like that. Anyway, he said that they all had an airborne jump that started them on one of their training missions, but that some of the guys weren’t airborne qualified. Did that mean they skipped the mission? No, it meant he had to ruck march for miles and miles and miles in order to meet the rest of the team on the drop zone.

There is never an option to just skip out. But there is usually an alternate event, which is generally a lot more sucky than just participating with the rest of the group.

Glad you piped in, Ron. And for the record, C, I have no problems with discipline. I just found it strange that they likened it to the discipline of the military. You make a good point, Ron… they were probably talking about the discipline needed during practice to construct those sequences. I guess watching the scene though, my gut said it was something else. Byron told the cameras that if people don’t want to dance they don’t have to… but I have this feeling (and correct me if I’m wrong) that in Military Discipline there isn’t any “I don’t want to dance.” So my my question simply was… what aren’t we seeing?

Is it demeaning and abusive to have an inmate at Cebu play the girl from Thriller? Probably. But Shakespearean men played women roles too. I won’t say that Byron is the new Shakespeare. Not in the least.

Control is the number one aspect in running a prison. You have to exert it and put it on display, or else the inmates will. But I do agree that at some point it went wrong, and now just serves as a misguided domination thing.

Von Steuben wrote the drill manual for the Army, which prescribes how to march in formations and carry and present weapons. Besides being an orderly way to move troops about on the battlefield, the primary reason for practicing drill is to instill discipline; to be judged on precision and to follow orders without hesitation or thought.

One of the byproducts of discipline through drill is unit cohesion, by which I mean how all the individuals learn to work as a group, and in a broader sense, how to not be an individual.

I suspect that Cebu’s warden was thinking something VAGUELY similar when he devised the dancing rehab. It’s a stretch, I know. But if you consider all the work and practice that goes into it, and how much cohesion and discipline it requires, it makes a tiny bit of sense. But only in that respect.

There are other considerations, too. Prisoners with time on their idle hands will sometimes get up to no good. So in a way, keeping them busy keeps order. And in this instance, it basically keeps all the inmates busy at the same times, and has the added benefit of wearing them out by night’s end. Tired bodies go to sleep, rather than plot and scheme.

Now, however it may have begun, it appears to have been corrupted and perverted along the way. But there are much worse things that a warden could be up to, so in the grand scheme of things, the Cebu inmates don’t have it THAT bad. Or at least that’s how it appears to me on the outside. It’s always a different animal on the inside.

I was stationed at Abu Ghraib for a bit (post-scandal), and so I look at this from a point of view from the inside. I’m trying to think of how many fewer escape attempts we would have had, and how many less folks would have been beaten up or sexually abused if they hadn’t had as much free time and…

And, what’s wrong with discipline, like the military? Not arguing, by use of that question. Just curious as to what you meant exactly.

I do agree with a lot of Caryl’s points about how this isn’t any worse than our prison system, etc. But, I also think it’s disturbing to see Byron and Gwendolyn getting such a kick out of it.

It’s also strange that they referred to it as discipline like in the military. It made me wonder what I wasn’t seeing.

I dont know if the prisoners are allowed to say no to dancing, but based on the introduction to the new guy with things like “do you know how to dance?” and then immediately put into a situation where he had to learn the moves.. well that doesnt really look like he had a choice in the matter. And OF COURSE Byron is gonna say that nothing happens to those who dont want to dance, he is not gonna be like “well i pay other inmates to kick their ass if they dont do what i want them to do.”

I dont know, as a whole I believe if someone is in jail for murder and rape and things like that, they should not be given any privileges, and they should rot in there while thinking about what they did to those they murdered/raped and how their families are dealing with it. If they have no respect for other people’s life.. they should not be given the chance to enjoy the rest of theirs.

to some dance is a way of forgetting they are in jail and make things better for them.. when they should be reflecting on what they did and not forget what damage it has caused others.

But i do agree that Byron and his sister are not exactly the best example of a proper way of treating prisoners.. specially when its to fill their egos and see them as “beautiful flowers” to bring pride to Phillipines.

there should be no pride in killers, rapists, or sexual offenders.

And, I did end my last comment with: Still, I agree – yeah, it’s creepy… and it probably shouldn’t be happening… I’ll omit “probably” this time!

The hardest thing for me to believe is that 1500 prisoners all view him as a “God” as he says… and that all the prisoners want to be dancing…. that all the prisoners would feel comfortable seeing themselves on videos doing pirouettes… or having millions of people seeing them do pirouettes.

And yes there’s an argument that prisoners shouldn’t have any say in what they want or don’t want to be doing in prison. But I believe that punishment should serve a purpose… and when those choices are being made, not for the good/safety of society, not for the rehabilitation of the prisoners, but rather to satiate the hungry ego of an individual in power, I just think that’s wrong.

I mean, that guy has his own name “byronfgarcia” watermarked on those videos.

I definitely agree this Byron guy has a huge ego and thrives on being a puppet master. And I doubt they have 8+ hours worth of practice, into the night, every night. I think extra time was put in for the show(s).

I’m all for human rights too. But, is it that different from how we treat a lot of our prisoners here? Our prisoners are forced to work and more. If the dancing prisoners are so horribly treated, then it must be some hell of a deterrent for crime (even though you believe it doesn’t send a message to would-be criminals). The point of prison is punishment!

If someone murdered one of my loved ones, I sure as hell wouldn’t want them to be coddled in prison. Where would the justice be in that? What about the rights of the victims and their families?

Still, I agree – yeah, it’s creepy… and it probably shouldn’t be happening…

However, the warden and his sister seem to be using it for their own amusement and entertainment. Perhaps they didn’t start out that way but it’s certainly how it comes across. Putting the videos on YouTube, making them learn new dances for birthday requests, bringing in guests to watch the dances… those are the reasons I find it all suspect. Even if they started out with good intentions, it seems to have progressed way beyond that now.

The truth is that nothing we hear from inside the prison can be taken at face value either. Those inmates have every reason to say they love doing the dances and very little reason to tell us they don’t. Or to be honest about what happens when they don’t. If anything, they have even more reason than an ex-inmate to put on a happy face and pretend that they enjoy Byron’s form of discipline.