Island’s Just as Lost as You – pt. 2
I suppose all of this questioning of the bomb’s effects started in the foot. The four toed foot. There’s something that’s been bothering me about it… especially now after this premiere.
I thought I’d be satisfied just to learn who the statue was… but now I just want to know how the thing got destroyed. How did that thing end up being only one foot? We know it was there in the late 1800s… well, we know it was there when the Black Rock arrived, which was sometime in the 1880s.
So, sometime between then and 2003, that statue went down… but how, dammit?! How?!
So far, our strongest suspect has been “the Incident”, an atomic bomb blasting most of that thing out into the water. But if we’re to believe the Jughead explosion somehow caused it, then we’d have to reject this notion that the Jughead explosion somehow changed the course of histo- Okay! I know I know! I promised no string theory, no parallel universes! Sorry.
It’s just that… if the statue was toppled by that explosion, then the explosion couldn’t have prevented the crash… cause Sayid saw that foot in 2003. Sayid was on 815.
Well then maybe… Jughead didn’t topple that statue. Maybe something else did? Ben said the statue had been in that condition since the time he arrived on the Island. Of course, maybe he was lying, but let’s say he wasn’t. Let’s say that the statue was toppled sometime between the 1880s and the 1970s. Um, okay, that narrows it down a bit. What events happened between then that could be possible culprits?
Well, the US was using other nearby Islands as test sites for bombs in the 50s… perhaps a nearby test did the damage? Although it’s hard to believe a shockwave could reach that far, much less pass through the island’s protective bubble.
What else?
Well how about the Black Rock itself? Perhaps it smashed into the statue while making its way to the middle of the Island. But how on earth could it do that? Hmm.
You know, one of the things I’ve started to pay closer attention to are those “Previously on Lost” openings. Sometimes they show us quick clips of things that seem a bit unrelated to what we ended up seeing in the episode. I’ve started to use some of them as clues to figure out what the writers are actually trying to plant in our heads, remind us of. In this episode, I thought it was interesting that they showed us a small shot of the Black Rock sailing towards the Island. In an episode that seemed to deal with nothing pertaining to the Black Rock, I wondered why they didn’t just leave that shot out. A recap of our Man in Black criticizing the traits of mankind would certainly be enough to set up for the big reveal… the great truth that he is… Fake Locke is… Fake Alex… Fake Yemi… and Fake Christian were all… ♫ on top of old Smokey ♫. (<- I know you think I've been waiting months to sing that, but no... it's only been 2 weeks)
Last season I made a guess about Smokey... that the reason the dharma initiative were so concerned, almost fanatic, about burying their dead... was to keep their dead from being used by The Smoke Monster; a rule that was most likely part of the deal they made with the Others. A rule that most likely came from Jacob himself. Yemi, Alex, Christan, and Locke were all dead bodies that had not been buried. And so they became models for The Smoke Monster's different shapes.
"Okay okay, got it, you were right! So what about The Back Rock?!"
Well, I think we did see the Back Rock in this episode, represented in a few ways. And you can probably guess, if you've read some of my others posts here, I'm so eager to finally learn the back story of that ship. I feel like after 5 seasons, this has gotta be the one where we get at least one flashback aboard the Black Rock.
And if we do, one thing I can say with certainty... the writers are not bringing many more characters onto this show. I mean, Jeeze! In terms of sheer character count, this premiere was off the scale! Of course, that doesn't mean there isn't room for one more skinny, bespectacled, blogging, fun loving, Chad the Atlantean engineer... *sigh* but now that John Hawkes is on the show, I think my chances have gotten pretty slim. Regardless, there’s no way they can fit a whole crew of sailors. Which means we’ve already met the crew of the Black Rock. Is it Widmore’s group of Others? Is it these new folks at the Temple? Or is it a little bit of both?
Interesting thing about the Black Rock, though. It’s a trading vessel. And one of two things are carried in it’s cargo at any given time. Precious metals is one. Ooo, metal! That sounds interesting, right? Metal can be very magnetic, as we all saw at the end of last season. And that Island occasionally has a fixation on metal… as we also saw at the end of last season.
But don’t get too excited. Most likely, the precious metal that ship carries is gold. And unfortunately gold, like many precious metals, is not magnetic.
So what’s the other thing? Maybe there’s something else in that cargo that’s “drawing” the ship to the Island. Well how about the stuff they use to buy the gold… slaves.
“Oooo!!!!! Slav-!…… wait… slaves?”
“Slaves are not magnetic, Cabrera. What the hell are you getting at here?”
Oh slaves are not magnetic? Yeah, I suppose that’s true… but what about… the chains. Those cargo holds are filled with chains and other iron used to hold the slaves. Chains are certainly magnetic, aren’t they?
[UPDATE: These four pics were added to this post. Inspired by LINDYK's very interesting comment below.]

And we did hear something about chains in this episode too, didn’t we? Locke mentioned that it was nice to see Richard again… out of his chains. Is it possible Richard is on that boat? Is it possible Richard came to the Island as a slave?
We know that, somehow, Jacob “brought the ship”, and I can think of at least two ways he could have done that.
- by drawing the ship. Using the magnetic energy of the Island as a sort of fishing line to catch a batch of humans.
- by using a sort of advisor/emissary character to go out and fetch a batch of humans for you.
Personally, I like the first of those two ideas. But if you’d rather entertain the second, then it’s entirely possible that Richard, as Jacob’s long time “advisor”, left the Island, got himself captured as a slave… then convinced the captain of the ship that he knew the location of an Island worth more than all the gold in the world. It would explain why the ship sailed east rather than its scheduled journey west.
Okay, but that still doesn’t explain the four toed foot, does it? Because I said the Black Rock may have somehow been involved in its destruction. Well, before I get to my thoughts on that, we should probably revisit the biggest question surrounding the Black Rock: How did it get into the middle of the Island? How does a boat just wind up in the middle of an Island? Well if you’re Werner Herzog you make your cast carry it (<- joke for the film nerds. Bad joke.)
@SarahSamudre has another very interesting theory at her blog that you really must read if you have the time. Much of it deals with a strange time shift she noticed between the Black Rock and the Island, but here’s a little bit that jumped out to me:
the only way to get the Island and the ship to sync up is to do it the same way that Ben got it to disappear at the end of season four.
BLOOP.
That’s right. It gets moved in both time and space. And where it pops back up again, the ship is catapulted up from the surface of the sea onto the middle of the island, all at once in sync with the land and the time of the Island.
It’s the only way to explain the lack of damage to a 160 year old sailing vessel that is smack dab in the middle of a very large tropical island.
Um, Sarah, your theory is kind of awesome, but there’s one small detail you got wrong… it’s a BLIP not a BLOOP. Just saying.
Anyway, I like this theory, I do. I wouldn’t necessarily say the ship is lacking in damage, but as I mentioned in my last post, this theory does support one of my other musings regarding Ben moving the Islan- I’m not gonna mention parallel universes, okay??!! Anyway, if we were to combine Sarah’s theory with my #2 for how it even found the Island, I think we’d have a decent story for what happened here.
But… I’d like to stick with this magnetism theory for a bit, my #1… mostly because I think it may support two theories for the price of one. I mean, what a bargain, right?! Who says johncabrera.com doesn’t have the best deals in town on Lost theories… even if some of them are a little defective.
Anyway, let’s say there was a magnetic force strong enough to drag all the metal on that boat to the middle of the Island. That would have to be a pretty strong force wouldn’t it? Something on par with the release we saw last season at the Swan site.
And if there was a force that strong, I could image it pulling that sucker pretty fast. Anything in its way could be in serious danger. Perhaps a statue? Nah, that couldn’t work, a large wooden vessel like that would get smashed to bits if it hit that statue…
although….
… the anchor wouldn’t.
A huge iron anchor? That thing would be flyin! I wouldn’t wanna be in its path, no sir!
I suppose the only snag is the fact that during this period in the Island’s history, the Swan site doesn’t exist, and all that magnetic energy is locked up underground. It seems the only mechanism at this point that could release that kind of power would be.. our good’ole donkey wheel.
And we’ve actually seen that donkey wheel recently… and what’s more, the statue was still standing at that very point in history when we last did. Locke was down in the well. He was getting ready to push the thing, while the rest of our Losties were above staring at the back of the statue.
Now I always assumed that the wheel Locke encountered was dislodged, shaking loosely, because of what Ben had done. But if you’ve read Part 1 of this post, you probably remember my realization that the Island is not traveling through time with them. The Losties are traveling through different periods of time in the Island’s history. Which means the shakey dislodged donkey wheel was a part of its natural history at this point. Which, of course, means someone other than Ben dislodged it. But who?
Well how about Jacob? Maybe he dislodged it. But why would he do that?
Well he is a fisherman… maybe he was just trying to catch some fish. Stay with me, here.
What if the wheel allows for different degrees of magnetic release. Pushing it as far as it can go would release such large quantities (amounts perhaps as large as what a nuke might release at the Swan site) that time is altered in some way. But perhaps… if it’s only pushed a bit, left sort of stuck in that position, the Island will release a very mild amount of it. Enough to slowly drag in vessels that are nearby.
A sort of makeshift fishing line, if you will.
And what might happen if Locke were to push a wheel like that right in the middle of it reeling in a catch?… well it might pull in Jacob’s fish a little faster than he’d hoped. And that fish might bring down his statue. It might also do some strange things to “time” on the Island.. might set some other “wheels” in motion.
Of course, to me, all of this lives at the heart of the show’s biggest mystery: What’s that Donkey Wheel doing there anyway? What is it?! Who in the world built that thing?!
……
*sigh*… who in the world.
Should I just say it? Are we really ready? Should we wait for the writers to develop it a bit more? Allow it to sound cooler than it will if I just blurt it out here?
…… Okay screw it!
In its most literal sense, this is a show about an Island with strange properties that challenge the limits of our science. An Island with immense pockets of power and gear-like devices that control them. It’s a show about ships and planes and other forms of transportation crashing on an Island. It’s about its crew and passengers stranded there, far from their homes. Lost.
And as we learned this week, much of this show is about the Smoke Monster… the Black Smoke… about his fairly reasonable desire to finally “go home”. Because it turns out he’s stranded too. On an Island he hates just as much as our Losties hate theirs.
But is his “Island” the same one as our Losties’? Or is he talking about an Island slightly bigger? An Island the size of, say… a planet?
If he is… where’s his crashed ship? Perhaps the better question is, what is his ship?






Rae on 04 Feb 2010 at 6:28 pm #
I refuse to acknowledge that last part.
But, question, what place does the Man in Black play in Jacob wanting to “pull” the Black Rock to the Island? He seemed disgusted with Richard’s contentment at seeing the Black Rock in the distance. And I think we are all pretty much in agreement that he’s the one who was in Christian’s body and it was Christian who goads Locke to get up and turn the wheel. So does he actually want the Black Rock on the Island? Or does he just need Locke to set things in motion (or stop the motion, as the case may be) so he doesn’t mind helping Richard’s plan along for the sake of his own plan?
I have no idea what I just said.
Rae on 04 Feb 2010 at 6:30 pm #
Argh. Ok, I am acknowledging it. How does Jacob play into that idea?
John Cabrera on 04 Feb 2010 at 6:31 pm #
Rae, you meant Jacob in your reply, not Richard, right?
stitchlady on 04 Feb 2010 at 6:31 pm #
Oh boy you just gave me a huge headache. Its all way too complicated.
LindyK on 04 Feb 2010 at 6:33 pm #
Wow, glad I found your site. Only read half through because I want to savor the article and am going slowly. When you mentioned trading I thought slaves immediately, as well – and what about all those chains that pulled Juliet down to her demise/detonation? They kept showing those chains multiple times, so ,much so that it really registered with me.
I find Sarah’s theory intriguing, and frankly, very plausible.
Good catch re: burying the dead.
Of course ,one mystery, which sorry if it’s in second part o essay (or earlier) is the Richard non-aging issue. This is obviously an important component tying something in…
John Cabrera on 04 Feb 2010 at 6:38 pm #
Lindy, glad you found my blog!
I’d say, right now, the answer to the Richard’s age question most likely lies in the Temple.
Rae on 04 Feb 2010 at 6:41 pm #
No, I meant Jacob. As in, why does he seem to be ok to be “lost” here and not the Smoke Monster? Although I guess I was assuming there was an implication that Jacob and the Smoke Monster of a like kind.
Rae on 04 Feb 2010 at 6:46 pm #
But, since you pointed it out, why is Richard so important that Jacob wants to get him back onto the Island?
I agree, by the way, that he was a slave on the ship. That’s what I guessed in my much more abbreviated post about the episode. Someone in the comments pointed out that the Smoke Monster could have been referring to Richard being “chained” to Jacob and his being free now that Jacob is dead. Which plays into an idea I had about the island being a place of banishment/punishment and my thought that Jacob’s role there is as a jailer. But I still felt he meant it more literally. I like it, really, since I was assuming Richard was the Captain of that ship. I like it more that he was a slave on it instead.
John Cabrera on 04 Feb 2010 at 6:53 pm #
Rae, yes, I think it’s entirely possible they’re a like kind. And actually, I italicized Black Smoke as a way of hinting that perhaps we’ll see a White Smoke at some point in the season. That the body of Jacob was just a host itself. But at the very least, to point out that, yes, they are probably of the same “place”, wherever that is.
Now, why does one want to leave and the other one stay? I think it’s hard to say at this point. But if the theory is true… it could be similar to the power struggle between Locke and Jack during the first 4 seasons.
Rae on 04 Feb 2010 at 6:57 pm #
Ahhh. Ok, gotcha. Poor Black Smoke, then. If he’s Jack in this scenario, he’s gonna get his wish and then before he knows it he’ll have a horrible beard, red eyes, and be telling them all, “We have to go back.”
John Cabrera on 04 Feb 2010 at 7:03 pm #
Rae, well, I don’t mean that Jacob wants him back. If we’re talking about my second of two theories on how the Black Rock arrived, I meant that Richard was sent out into the world by Jacob as a tool to bring him “men”. That Richard was already working for him. That he got himself enslaved as part of his strategy of bringing them there. Again, I prefer the magnetic theory. That would just make Richard a slave on the ship. Why he becomes important would come after he arrives.
My strongest guess for why Jacob wants “men” is to teach them. To share what he knows. Perhaps he considers that a valuable part of one’s existence. And perhaps the MIB views it as fruitless, since “men” seem to always take Jacob’s teachings and corrupt them. Use them for selfish means.
And maybe he’s right. And so perhaps Jacob has developed a system of separating those who arrive at the Island into two groups. The one who are “the good guys”, they go on the list. They’re kidnapped and taken to The Temple to learn. Those who don’t fit the bill… those who would take Jacob’s teachings and use them for bad… are left to fend for themselves.
Kansas on 04 Feb 2010 at 7:12 pm #
Ok, my poor mind is still trying to process part one so let’s see if I can get a handle on part two. Ok, with the theory on how the heck the black rock showed up I would have to lean closer to the second one. After all, in past seasons we have seen Richard go to several of the characters on the island at different times in their life. (Usually at this point in the episode my friends and I are going, “why the hell is richard there?!”) Fate is a key ongoing theme here and it is understandable if fate is semi-guided by eyeliner richard.
Ok, Smokey/man in black/fake locke vs. Jacob. Ok back to biblical Jacob and Esau. Jacob received the blessing (which was the blessing of LAND & PEOPLE Gen 12:1-2…the land could be the island and the people could be the others) Esau was supposed to receive this blessing but didn’t because Jacob stole it from him…Esau vows to kill Jacob but promises his father Isaac that he will not kill him himself (use Ben to kill Jacob)…that’s as far as the biblical banter goes…but if i were smokey i would want off of my stolen blessing as it is a god awful reminder that it is not mine and that “the others” are not my people…prolly why smokey liked eating them for breakfast and same with the losties
call it delusional and unorganized but that’s what i’ve got so far…
Rae on 04 Feb 2010 at 7:13 pm #
Ooooh. Sorry, apparently I was mixing the two theories in my mind. Got ya now.
That *does* explain all the lists. And, in a way, even explains the Dharma Initiative. Even the cryptic comments about once you’ve been cast out from the Island, you can’t get back. And why Jacob never appeared to Ben. Altho, it makes me wonder about Richard since Ben kept telling him he saw Jacob and Richard never seemed to question it. I need to go back and re-watch all of that again.
Also makes me wonder why Blackie couldn’t kill Jacob himself.
Mélanie on 04 Feb 2010 at 7:15 pm #
This was a very detailed and great post!
A friend of mine had theoricized that the guy in dark shirt (aka black smoke monster) and Jacob might be representative of good and evil. Almost like seeing God and Satan play with the island. At this point, does it really seem over the top? can ANYTHING be over the top? lol
And why did Jacob let Ben kill him? Ben did ask that as well. Could it be that he knew he would find other ways to screw with his nemesis? Can he take over bodies as well? Is he in Sayid (though I like to think Sayid IS alive… I love Sayid!)
And I didn’t see you comment much the fact we saw Claire, Charlie, etc. Does it mean they are back in the show? I was so stunned and so awesomly excited about it.
Ugh 2 hours and so much things happened.. as usual. Thanks for your post and can’t wait to read the next one, next week
Rae on 04 Feb 2010 at 7:22 pm #
Apparently I need to dust off my Bible and catch up on some things. (Re: why Blackie couldn’t kill Jacob himself) Thanks, Kansas!
loic on 04 Feb 2010 at 7:24 pm #
I have to say it : your posts are at least as entertaining to me as the show itself.
Now, about the statue and its destruction, it seemed pretty clear to me that it was blown OUT of the island, in the ocean. An inward force like the ship being dragged in the island isn’t really making it to me yet…but I’m sure you’ll find a way to convince me!
I have been a deep believer of “The Theory That Must Not Be Told Yet” for a long time… And I love your correlations between ships, Lost people, islands etc…
One more question : Locke/Smokey pushing Jacob’s body in the fire. It seemed very purposeful. Is it to keep Jacob from finding another body?? And could Jacob’s letter to the Temple’s people be his way to get one?….Said’s?? But he seemed himself waking up…or maybe not…
I have to say it again : YOUR POSTS ARE AS MUCH FUN AS THE SHOW ITSELF !!!!
Pauline on 04 Feb 2010 at 8:13 pm #
I totally apologize, again. But I just can’t see a person getting themselves caught as a slave and then talking the ship’s captain to go in the wrong direction. That is crazy? Didn’t you see Amistad? I mean, Richard is sooo pretty but he would have gotten tied to the anchor and drowned for mouthing off quicker than you can say shark bait.
Speaking of anchors, from what I can find, Slave ship anchors are about 7 Feet tall, and 44 inches wide and weigh 250 lbs. I can’t see where it could take down a statue as big as Footie must have been. I do however believe that Richard was with Jacob from before the Black Rock ended up on the island.
In terms of the “fishing” theory. I think that is pretty right on but I think that it was Senior Smoke who tried to screw it up by not only getting Locke to turn the donkey wheel but getting Ben to turn the donkey wheel that started the careening through time in the first place. I think Ye Old Black Smoke machine actually killed several birds with one stone there. Though… I’ll be looking into this further while I’m figuring out my new notion that Ben has been in relationship with Smoke for a LOOONG time and didn’t even know it.
Final thought from me: Aztec myths say Tezcatlipoca, because of his bad nature was not allowed to return to the Gods’ Home in the North Star. The Marvel comics say that they’re home was a floating world called Topan, a small pocket dimension adjacent to Earth. There was an interdimensional nexis between the two… somewhere. Tez really wanted to go home though, he used to hop around in the sky sadly… he formed the constellation Ursa Minor. He was also a protector of slaves. hmmmm. I know… the whole AZTEC thing again. I’m just sayin’.
Good blog… lots to think on! Thanks!
Tricialew on 04 Feb 2010 at 8:28 pm #
In the foot, did the bullet bounce off of Fake Locke or did it go through him? If it bounced off, that would make him like Superman. Why is he suddenly indestructible in human form? Then, what was with the new trick of the powder/dust/ashes poured on the ground to keep the Smoke Monster at bay (until, of course you fall outside the perimeter of the circle and it impales you on something)? That was sort of Voodoo-ish and I don’t remember seeing that trick used before. Those two things bothered me because, get this….they can’t possibly be real (all of the other events, characters and smoke monsters are so much more believable to me).
I need to go watch again! Thank you for blogging.
John Cabrera on 04 Feb 2010 at 8:38 pm #
loic, isn’t it possible for something hard and fast to hit it from the front, perhaps very low (like its right foot) shattering it in one spot. Then gravity could pull down the rest of the statue in a variety of directions, including into the water right in front of it.
John Cabrera on 04 Feb 2010 at 8:54 pm #
Mmm, P, I don’t think 250lbs is right for that size. Here’s an anchor that’s not even double the size. It’s 5000 lbs. That’s a big difference.
But to be honest, I think a 250lb anchor of that size traveling at a fast enough speed could certainly shatter or fracture a portion of the statue enough for it to come down on its own.
And you may be right about Richard… but I think on a night time soap opera, scenes have a tendency to play out a little different than straight historical fiction like Amistad. I think there’s a little more leeway.
John Cabrera on 04 Feb 2010 at 9:09 pm #
Tricia, actually circles of ash are something the show has played with. “Jacob’s cabin” was completely surrounded by a circle of ash in season 3. And someone was in there who couldn’t get out… “HEELLLPP MEEEE…,” he said. Then in Season 5, Ilana and her crew found the cabin totally deserted and destroyed. They noticed (and seemed worried) that the circle of ash had been broken.
Pauline on 04 Feb 2010 at 9:50 pm #
Alright Cabrera… You got me… My anchor was from a ship from 1700. It was a small ship. My bad. I was trying to finish up things before Fringe came on… It’s not every day a girl gets to see herse die on a Bad Robot show… But I shouldn’t have let my googling get sloppy.
& I still don’t see the Black Rock as Being the Love Boat of the 1880′s. Mutiny, I would totally buy.
Aaron on 04 Feb 2010 at 11:12 pm #
When watching the premiere and in the “flash sideways” part where Jack was told Christian’s body was “lost” I immediately had a theory. Maybe Black Smoke/NotLocke might take the form of Christian’s body in the “flash sideways”. Smokie said he wanted to escape and perhaps the bomb being set off allowed that loophole he was looking for. In many ways Season 4 was a mirror of Season 2, then maybe this season is a mirror of the first season and in these “flash sideways” segments maybe Jacob and Smokie will be the ones thrust into the LA world in the “flash sideways”.
There has to be a big reason for the writers to spend so much of the last season on a “what if they hadn’t crashed” portion of the show, and the little differences with timeline/characters might be foreshadowing this.
John, I know you didn’t want to say it, but I’m certainly wondering: are these “flash sideways” actually a parallel universe created by the bomb?
Hopefully the mystery of where Christian’s body is will be solved early in the season and my theory will be debunked/validated.
John Cabrera on 04 Feb 2010 at 11:33 pm #
Aaron, did you have a chance to read part 1 of my post? In it, I talk a lot about whether I think the bomb created the parallel universe.
Interesting theory about Smokey and Christian’s body.
BabsiS on 05 Feb 2010 at 1:06 am #
I was wondering two things. First – the donkey wheel – can it be pushed/pulled into both directions? Maybe depending on the direction you move back or forth in time?
The foot. I’ve just read that it’s an old egyptian symbol for “a happy wandering through life” and “a safe return back home”. On the other hand it’s a symbol of power. I think both represent the island pretty much. Because the people on it are trying to get back home but they can’t escape its power. So I’m wondering – why is only one foot left? And why does it have 4 toes? 4 stands for the elements, the mundane universe and for the realization of mankind. Hmmm….
As for the black smoke. I think it’s crazy that it has something to do with Locke or is Locke. aWhen I saw that yesterday, I immediately thought of a scene in Season 1 (and I hope I’m not confusing anything here, since I’ve just woken up LOL) when Locke faces the black smoke and it doesn’t do him any harm. Now that makes total sense!
*rambling*
John Cabrera on 05 Feb 2010 at 1:15 am #
Well I think we’re going to find out this season what happened to that statue that brought it crumbling down. Of course my theory in the post is that perhaps the Black Rock was somehow involved, since we know the statue was there when the Black Rock arrived… and I can’t imagine they would introduce any new plot points to this show. Oh hell, who am I kidding? This is Lost!
Very interesting info about the foot. I never thought that maybe the writers could also be using it as a symbol for the story on a whole.
Emily on 05 Feb 2010 at 5:05 am #
After reading this and chatting with @SarahSamudre, I’m seriously torn between theories. There’s so much going on! My question is how important it is that Juliet knew that it had worked?! Connecting that to the fact that Desmond is on the plane [Desmond had been on the Island when 815 crashed for 3yrs so why is he now just leaving Sydney?], then disappears; Locke’s knives are missing; and Christian’s body is gone. Did Juliet have a similar experience as Desmond had in The Constant? The possibilities are all so awesome!
And as far as “blip” vs. “bloop”, I side with bloop. It incorporates that watery sound as the Island disappears into time and space. Just saying.
silentts on 05 Feb 2010 at 8:21 am #
Hmmm… Okay, so Jacob and Smokey may be of alien origin. I’d assume that Jacob is the “pilot” of the vessel and going back to what Rousseau said in Season One, Smokey is a “security system” for their ship. Being the ship’s security, it’s likely that Smokey would be programmed not to kill the pilot, but if that pilot is fascinated by human beings and refuses to take them home, it’d make sense for the security system to get frustrated and start seeking a way around the pilot’s will and to get itself back to its point of origin. I can buy that.
As for “parallel universes,” my immediate instinct was to flashback to “Donnie Darko” and assume the “sunken island” timeline was now the correct universe and that by setting off the bomb, the Losties we’ve been following since the beginning have inadvertantly created a tangent universe in which they still exist, unaware of the new “correct” timeline; a tangent universe that, as it deviates further from the “correct” timeline should become increasingly unstable until it destroys itself…
Pauline on 05 Feb 2010 at 10:08 am #
Okay… I concede. An anchor coming at rapid speed may be able to take out the statue… a shot in the leg and then forward into the ocean like you said. But if the anchor was coming that quickly… wouldn’t the Black Rock have been smashed to smithereens along with everyone in it?
I just keep playing SmokeMan’s Advocate don’t I?
Or I just really like Sarah’s Bloop the more I think about it.
L on 05 Feb 2010 at 10:28 am #
Interesting theories…
Somehow I feel like Richard and now Sayid have both been in that weird pool at the temple… Maybe it makes Sayid near-immortal, too?
The multiple timelines were very confusing in this episode. Parallel timelines, maybe… but on the other hand, the following might be possible:
Juliet did re-boot the island and the 815 never crashed, our guys didn’t end up on the island this way. But maybe fate pulled them in some other way? The initial crash was almost like a coincidence anyway (well, maybe not), so maybe those who were supposed to end up there would have ended up there anyway. I can’t get over the whole “purpose” thing that Locke has been preaching about before. If it is so important that these specific people end up on the island, maybe they would anyhow. This theory, though a bit vague, would mean that the things happening in 2007 are on the same timeline as the crash that didn’t happen.
Err, maybe this was a bit vague.
Loic on 05 Feb 2010 at 11:08 am #
It could be interesting to know how the Statue had been build to figure out how or why it’s been destroyed.
I kinda like the theory of just 2 Parallel universes unable to co-exist for long, created by the detonation. This could be interesting when Jacob & Co finally leave, letting the islander having to “chose” which reaslity survives…
But like you said John, there is many different instances throughout the show where they already hinted at Parallel Realities…prior to Juliet detonating the bomb.
Said a new Richard or Said/Jacob?…hmm…
Anyway, it is blip for me…definitely.
John Cabrera on 05 Feb 2010 at 11:23 am #
Aww P, I think one could make it work. There are plenty of things on this show that sort of stretch the boundaries of what could actually happen. For example, that fuselage on the beach smashed pretty hard and fast. And yet so many survived on the beach. Not believable… but we accept it cause it’s a fun sci fi series.
The anchor could rip itself free of the boat, the anchor could hit it at a slower speed and miraculously still do the damage a writer would want it to… or the anchor could get snagged on the right foot and the magnetic force could literally rip the stone or at least a crucial structural point on it. All three have problems sure, but they wouldn’t bother me anymore than survivors of a fuselage that smashes on land or the countless things on the show that stretch the truth a bit.
SilentTs I love the breakdown of who those two might be if they were of alien origin. And it’s making me wonder if perhaps Smokey and Jacob aren’t the same “kind”. If there is a “ship”, perhaps Smokey is a sort of “HAL”-like counterpart to Jacob.
John Cabrera on 05 Feb 2010 at 11:30 am #
Em, yeah but blip sounds like drip. Here listen, ready?…….. drip….. drip…. blip.
Now listen to this ready?…. bloop….. bloop……. droop. Droop?! lol.
Ah well I guess at the end of the day Sarah says Oyster and I say Oyster, you know?
silentts on 05 Feb 2010 at 11:30 am #
Yeah, the “HAL” scenario was kind of what I was thinking if that was the case.
Another thought, if the Island can move through space/time, and we’re starting to deal with parallel universes, it’s just as feasible that Jacob and Smokey are extra-dimensional entities as they are extra-terrestrial.
John Cabrera on 05 Feb 2010 at 11:38 am #
ST (btw just notice it’s you under those silent t’s, JSchopp), I think that’s right. In fact, I think all this Atlantis, ancient myths stuff still applies as Pauline pointed out with her Aztec myth reference to extra dimensions.
And by the way, P, don’t be reluctant to bring up more of your Aztec goodness here! It’s totally welcome!
SarahSamudre on 05 Feb 2010 at 2:16 pm #
Oh John.
If you don’t like the word bloop, take it up with the writers of the show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UdScbFE7Cs&feature=youtube_gdata
“Bloop!”
Actually, totally not relating to episodes at hand, but just JJ Abrams/Lost fanaticism: Bloop is like “SLUSHO”. It’s appeared in multiple Abrams projects. I first noticed it in the Cloverfield ARG. The Slusho website had fish swimming on it, and they said “Bloop”. Research what the BLOOP is on wikipedia, and you’ll find it correlates with two of Abrams mythologies. It’s an actual event, but I guess in either mythologies, you could blame it on a temporal displacement, or a giant monster awakening from the deep.
Anyway, look for it, Slusho and “You All Everybody” in Abrams’ work.
Emily on 05 Feb 2010 at 3:05 pm #
Hahaha, droop. It’s more like bloop….bloop…REBOOT!
Ok, seriously, I’ll stop. But you didn’t answer the Juliet question! She’s at the center of this fraying string! Ahck! It’s so friggin awesome.
Ed R on 05 Feb 2010 at 3:28 pm #
I am so glad I don’t watch this show.
John Cabrera on 05 Feb 2010 at 6:50 pm #
I’m sorry, but no way did Hurley say “bloop” in that scene. I listened to it about 20 times and it’s definitely “…we all saw it. It’s gone… blöp”. Which I concede may be in between a “blip” and a “bloop”, but no way is that a “bloop”. Germans support me on this one! lol.
Samudre, you do know I’m goofing around, right? I’m not gonna be emailed pages from the script, am I?
John Cabrera on 05 Feb 2010 at 6:59 pm #
Ed, why not? You would love this show… and you would have great theories… and we would totally worship you here.
Molly on 05 Feb 2010 at 8:09 pm #
Okay, things I’m definitely on board with: Richard being a slave on the Black Rock, the electromagnetic energy pulling the Black Rock onto the Island, and something to do with the Black Rock taking out the statue.
Now, this statue, we’ve talked about it a lot, let’s get a good hard look at it: http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5121/213px5x16fourtoedstatue.png
It’s definitely Egyptian (or Egyptian-looking). According to Lostpedia it’s of the goddess Taweret who is the goddess of birth, rebirth and the northern sky. It’s holding an ankh in each hand, just like what Hurley delivered to the Temple (also like the one Paul, the dead guy who was on the picnic with Amy in “LaFleur”, was wearing, which she stole). The ankh is a symbol of life. Taweret was also married to the god of evil, Apep.
Now that we’ve got our ancient history out of the way, here’s the meaning I’m getting from it. This statue could definitely be a symbol for the whole show. The idea of rebirth, second chances, definitely. Also this idea of opposites. Taweret was seen as the northern sky while Apep was believed to always be below the horizon. Could the relationship of Jacob and Smokey be similar? Definitely.
Now to incorporate some of my personal theories. I think Jacob and Smokey are immortal or at least have some method of living for a very, very, very long time. (Rebirth?!) I’m not saying they’re Egyptians, but perhaps almost that far back. We’ve seen LOTS of Egyptian references on the Island, this cannot be a coincedence. I’m not sure of the significance other than some possible spiritual beliefs? I’m more looking at Lost as a scientific show, though, so I’m not sure about that. I tried to make some connection between the Black Rock being a slave ship and the Egyptians enslaving the Israelites but got nowhere with that. Ideas are welcome.
Oh, and by the way, I definitely said a few years ago that I wouldn’t be surprised if they were all aliens. Still wouldn’t be.
LindyK on 06 Feb 2010 at 9:03 pm #
Hey, maybe it’s the Rocky Horror Picture Show! I say a transvestite scene is coming with Richard…
——
I’m noticing a lot of mythological reference to rebirth and of course no one appears to be able to have babies here. And the flip-flop on the plane. I’m wondering if it’s a sort of doppelganger thing going on.
So, as John noted, maybe there are two universes, maybe it’s part of a game between Smokey and Jacob. One universe did get destroyed with the detonation and is now at the bottom of the ocean, and the statue on that island was destroyed then.
Then there is the other replicate island, and that statue also is destroyed, but in another manner not yet known (although the Black Rock is a good start). Perhaps the people are moved (or moved back and forth) from the lost island to the new one. Perhaps Charlie and others who died on one island, will be alive in the other…
I like the symbolism of slaves, I just don’t know yet if I can embrace Richard being a slave, although he does seem to have no power.
Also, thx for referencing me in your update. John. Whenever I join a group discussion, I always worried that the first comment will be, “Do you mind leaving?”
LindyK on 06 Feb 2010 at 9:05 pm #
I just wanted to add another reason I think the dual island theory is plausible. They have an awful lot of ‘splainin’ to do, and having two islands relieves a heck of a lot of that burden.
Pauline on 20 Feb 2010 at 12:32 pm #
Doing some time traveling here and coming back to the post because I was just thrilled to see that one of the names on Jacob’s wall was Amistad.
We have the big Black Rock episode coming up soon… it’s epsode 8 and is called Ab Aeterno which translates from Latin to mean from the Beginning of Time. After seeing the name Amistad, I’m wondering if we’re going to see a story line that follows that of the movie Amistad… Mutiny onboard the ship and then a trial on the island.
Wondering who Amistad is? Could it be Widmore since Widmore is an alias? And since he seems to be obsessed with the Black Rock.
Again… very excited.